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Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

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  • #16
    Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

    Originally posted by 55564545525B370 link=1326694090/13#13 date=1326753284
    Not quite sure I follow, If you are saying that buying overseas is the way to go and you dont have an issue with local business closing down if they cant compete, why on earth would anyone come along and "fill the gap if the need is there"
    As I said, if the need is there, if there is no need it wont happen.
    Australia has way too many hopefuls who believe opening a retail business will automatically lead to success, most of them will meet you with a blank look if asked whether they have a business plan, have done a market survey or have expertise in the chosen field, add to this the fact that many are undercapitalised or have over borrowed means a significant percentage will fold within the first couple of years.

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    • #17
      Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

      This issue comes up often and tends to be a very sensitive type of discussion. I think there are aspects from both points of view that I feel are valid. In the main I would lean on the side of supporting local from a risk mitigation perspective, as well as support of local suppliers.

      However I wonder if it is inevitable that people will increasingly look at the grey import options, and rather than fight that, whether there is possibly a business opportunity to provide services to assist the buyers mitigate their risks by providing sensible information and advice, Oz compliance rectification and tweaking to local conditions when really required.

      Of course cost, technical and legal issues may be prohibitive or even counter productive, but is it worth thinking about, or maybe the idea could lead to something more constructive?

      Just an idea 

      GrahamK

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      • #18
        Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

        Originally posted by 676477776069050 link=1326694090/13#13 date=1326753284
        Not quite sure I follow,  If you are saying that buying overseas is the way to go and you dont have an issue with local business closing down if they cant compete, why on earth would anyone come along and "fill the gap if the need is there"

        If everything is being purchased OS there is no need!  No need, no local business, no local business no jobs for the retail workers.

        The extra money isnt in the margins and profits, it is in the taxes, duties and cost of compliance so the local seller isnt being greedy and cant lower prices even if he wants to.

        We live in a small population and if we dont support our own then who will?

        It is a personal choice and you are entitled to yours, its just the theory that more local shops will open up if others close seems flawed if you are buying everything overseas.
        This is a great topic, and one that will continue to be discussed for years to come. First of all, talk about supporting local business etc, etc. Coffee machines are not manufactured in Australia (apart from Boema), they are made overseas; the only business that grey imports hurt is the import and retail of imported machines. The importation of commercial coffee machines does impact on a local manufacturer, yet no mention is made of this fact. As the OP states, those with a vested interest in retailing make a lot of noise.

        Like it or not, we are part of a global economy. We mine, grow and manufacture products that are sold around the world. Our minerals are processed and then sold back to us, value added. Due to many reasons, local manufacturing is no longer viable [economies of scale is one reason]; in many sectors. Companies have invested heavily into China, and this country is now a manufacturing powerhouse, but innovative companies around the world still compete with them , or work together.

        The global market is changing very rapidly, and all businesses must adapt to survive. Retail is undergoing huge changes, and will continue to do so. Retailing in Australia is very expensive due to rent, wages, compliance, etc, etc.. Not all retail shops are viable, especially those that sell imported goods. Just because someone wants to set up a shop, does not mean that we as customers owe them allegiance. We are free to shop and spend as we like. Our money, our risk. Retail is tough and cutthroat. High Rent has killed many businesses, and now the landlords are suffering, as their shops stand empty. Their properties are no longer worth what they used to be, which is good, as commercial property is grossly overpriced.

        If you want to support "Real" local businesses, then support the farmers and local food manufacturers. This in turn helps the associated industries to prosper. Help them grow viable specialty businesses. This creates sustainable jobs.

        As a final note, retailers must be prepared to adapt rapidly in the future. If they do not, they will not survive. The amount of goods purchased online will continue to grow.

        The comment above about servicing grey imports is a very good point.
        However, a domestic espresso machine is not really a product that interests me as a grey import, as there are too may variables involved. I do think that people coming from overseas with machines, should have access to service here in Australia. There are many other electrical appliances more suitable to grey imports [KitchenAid mixers etc].

        On a similar topic, laptops and cameras are devices intended for travel. They should have global warranties. The difference in pricing of these products {usually identical} around the world really upsets many people, and fuels the "grey" import market. The luxury car market is another contentious issue. Regulations to prop up a local industry are so outdated, they are a joke.

        Look back and see how many things have changed in the past decade. Look forward to the changes (hopefully positive) to come.

        Thanks for the rant.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

          Originally posted by 124D554348434F464645454D414E200 link=1326694090/2#2 date=1326695238
          I hope you have in mind that on average, 10% of your family and friends work in retail. Surely you wont mind kicking in an extra 10-15% of your earnings in tax to cover their dole payments in a few years. Its only fair and they will be looking to you... Huh
          well a few years ago 14% of the workforce was in manufacturing - does anyone really care that its now a fraction of that?

          Manufacturing has faced the reality of globalization and now its retailings turn.

          My approach to purchasing is to do some research and have a clear idea of what i am prepared to pay before i go near a shop or buy. Some items (e.g. cameras in particular) are very hard to buy locally at the right price.

          Coffee machines.... buy locally!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

            Originally posted by 4B5B4C5D5D5B4C484B50290 link=1326694090/18#18 date=1326767113
            Some items (e.g. cameras in particular) are very hard to buy locally at the right price.

            My camera I bought locally, there was maybe less than a 10% saving buying overseas but with items such as cameras which are very delicate I chose the warranty and local support over saving a buck.

            I am easily ahead now as a few months into using the camera i wasnt all that happy with the action on one of the rotary knobs (not holding its setting) and the whole camera was replaced by the retailer.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

              I should qualify my above post with the information that I have recently made a number of purchases from retailers in Australia that I would previously have bought from online retailers in the US, the reason being that prices were similar to or in one case lower than I could have bought over seas, the items were photographic and computer related.
              I currently have orders for clothing and books coming from overseas, in the case of clothing the size range is better as well as price and quality being superior, I know my size so no problem there.
              And we all know that books, DVDs and CDs are far cheaper from overseas suppliers than Australian.
              I dont buy offshore just for the sake of it, there has to be a significant cost/quality benefit, for instance a jacket $700 in Aust, $300 inc postage from the US :
              I certainly wouldnt import an espresso machine or grinder.

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              • #22
                Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                i have bought 2 pro bodies from HK - with Australian warranties which have been honoured. the saving at that time ( 18 months ago) was huge ( 35% ). maybe the locals have improved their act which as you say 10-20% is more than reasonable premium.

                Originally posted by 04363923363B223A570 link=1326694090/20#20 date=1326767943
                I should qualify my above post with the information that I have recently made a number of purchases from retailers in Australia that I would previously have bought from online retailers in the US, the reason being that prices were similar to or in one case lower than I could have bought over seas, the items were photographic and computer related.
                I currently have orders for clothing and books coming from overseas, in the case of clothing the size range is better as well as price and quality being superior, I know my size so no problem there.
                And we all know that books, DVDs and CDs are far cheaper from overseas suppliers than Australian.
                I dont buy offshore just for the sake of it, there has to be a significant cost/quality benefit, for instance a jacket $700 in Aust, $300 inc postage from the US :
                I certainly wouldnt import an espresso machine or grinder.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                  Originally posted by 5444534242445357544F360 link=1326694090/21#21 date=1326768867
                  i have bought 2 pro bodies from HK
                  Its funny because when you go to Hong Kong looking for the prices that we see on the net, youd be hard pressed to find them!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                    Originally posted by 5040574646405753504B320 link=1326694090/21#21 date=1326768867
                    i have bought 2 pro bodies from HK - with Australian warranties which have been honoured. the saving at that time ( 18 months ago) was huge ( 35% ). maybe the locals have improved their act which as you say 10-20% is more than reasonable premium.
                    Similar experience, prices have narrowed significantly due to the strong Aust dollar.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                      Originally posted by 5453464944270 link=1326694090/17#17 date=1326765981
                      This is a great topic
                      Thanks.

                      Originally posted by 41465345485E78161E1E1E270 link=1326694090/1#1 date=1326694403
                      Well, glad you feel better
                      Indeed. But its either this:

                      Originally posted by 41465345485E78161E1E1E270 link=1326694090/1#1 date=1326694403
                      people are entitled to hold a contrary opinion!
                      Or this:

                      Originally posted by 5355424953544C4E270 link=1326694090/3#3 date=1326695733
                      hand in your coffeesnobs membership card now and delete this site from your bookmarks
                      I think
                      Originally posted by 45465555424B270 link=1326694090/13#13 date=1326753284
                      We live in a small population and if we dont support our own then who will?
                      is a little blinkered. Lets for one second go back in history to find a point in time when Australia was self sufficient. Try looking before 1788.

                      Originally posted by 5453464944270 link=1326694090/17#17 date=1326765981
                      We mine, grow and manufacture products that are sold around the world. Our minerals are processed and then sold back to us, value added.
                      Spot on. The hallmarks of a banana republic. Export raw materials, import finished goods. Strategically this is not sustainable. In 20, 50, 100 years the world will not need millions of tons of coal. Now is the time to modernise the economy.

                      Back to coffee machines.
                      Originally posted by 634249494E54270 link=1326694090/11#11 date=1326751318
                      Where were you when an insurance company tried to hold me liable for more than $80k worth of fire, smoke, and heat damage caused by an electrical fault in a pedestal fan just a few years ago?
                      Are you telling me that you operated a pedestal fan without adult supervision? ;D Seriously, though, I would be inclined to doubt that any legislation exists that forbids the operation of non-standard, imported equipment. The Korjo factory is just down the road from where I live. They make power plug adapters. How would they be able to sustain their business if this was the case? Maybe your insurance policy was worded in rather draconian terms?

                      Lastly,
                      Originally posted by 154A52444F4448414142424A4649270 link=1326694090/2#2 date=1326695238
                      I hope you have in mind that on average, 10% of your family and friends work in retail.
                      is moot. This argument embodies the frustration I feel when I watch the news and see how desalination plants are justified by the 2000 jobs their construction will bring over the five years it takes to construct them. I believe that a free market regulates that products and services must be good enough to sustain business. I dont think that anyones business should be dependent on a state sponsored crutch. [Ill make exceptions for essential industries such as farming. But not for coffee machines, essential to us as they may be.] So lets stop being so scared of the e-commerce bogeyman. Im certainly not going to shed a tear if Harvey Norman may loose a million or two due to the internet. ;D

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                        Originally posted by 263B3F3F2B30520 link=1326694090/19#19 date=1326767927
                        My camera I bought locally
                        Same here. Went to Teds and got 5 year extended warranty. But I did appreciate that they acknowledged that international competition exists, and that they tailored their offering specifically to be competitive in this reality. All those who do not, go under.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                          Originally posted by 223A3B3E21313A3E520 link=1326694090/24#24 date=1326771181
                          I would be inclined to doubt that any legislation exists that forbids the operation of non-standard, imported equipment.
                          The issue isnt legality. The issue is that if you import equipment that doesnt meet Australian standards, and use it on an Australian network (water, power, ...) the responsibility for the damages it causes belongs to the importer--in this case--you.

                          If you buy it from a retailer, then either the retailer or importer would bear the responsibility for the damages and the insurance company will go after them, generally holding you covered.

                          Greg
                          (used to work in insurance claims and underwriting)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                            so greg are you aware of any insurance claims where the householder has been knocked back on a claim due to their resposnsibility? im thinking electrical rewiring or other dodgy repairs, often wondered how the DIY renovators is liable......


                            Originally posted by 497C6B6959617C636F626A0E0 link=1326694090/26#26 date=1326771677
                            Originally posted by 223A3B3E21313A3E520 link=1326694090/24#24 date=1326771181
                            I would be inclined to doubt that any legislation exists that forbids the operation of non-standard, imported equipment.
                            The issue isnt legality. The issue is that if you import equipment that doesnt meet Australian standards, and use it on an Australian network (water, power, ...) the responsibility for the damages it causes belongs to the importer--in this case--you.

                            If you buy it from a retailer, then either the retailer or importer would bear the responsibility for the damages and the insurance company will go after them, generally holding you covered.

                            Greg
                            (used to work in insurance claims and underwriting)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                              Originally posted by 4F7D72687D7069711C0 link=1326694090/12#12 date=1326753175
                              Originally posted by 062B3F2D2223242D0B3E0C2B3E2F4A0 link=1326694090/9#9 date=1326744706
                              There was not the market locally for him to survive
                              I rest my case, he should never have opened in the first place. :
                              You know nothing, When he opened, He was the only one in the area, He grew his business up from a small hole in the wall to something interesting, The market changed, He changed with it, but he still offered the traditional items. But then a large chain store come into the same area he worked, and he suddenly found the majority of his customers going to the chain store because their main range products were cheaper.

                              Witness the business being shut down, and the boutique traditional items no longer being available because the chain store did not wish to stock them.

                              Your "he shouldnt have opened" shows a remarkable short-sightedness. He was operating at a profit until an outsider pushed into his market and undercut his prices.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Whats the deal with shunning grey imports? A rant.

                                Originally posted by 756D6C6976666D69050 link=1326694090/24#24 date=1326771181
                                Are you telling me that you operated a pedestal fan without adult supervision?
                                Pardon me for not laughing. If you had an iota of empathy you might not have written that.

                                Originally posted by 756D6C6976666D69050 link=1326694090/24#24 date=1326771181
                                Maybe your insurance policy was worded in rather draconian terms?
                                You really have no idea what youre talking about.

                                Im pretty sick of people who whine about being able to import cheaper than they can buy locally, particularly when they expect me to match whatever price they think is reasonable. My response to this and to you, is usually along the lines of, "Yes, youre right. Everything is cheaper overseas...coffee machines, cars, houses, loans, etc. It might be worth considering moving there so you can enjoy the unemployment levels, very basic wage, and cost of adequate healthcare.

                                Seriously, if you dont like the conditions here in Australia then either do something positive to make things better, or get out.

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