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Back On Topic nice to see another new prosumer focused entry into the Lever market in a domestic width package. Will be interesting to hear from the users when they arrive.
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I too have one of these L-I's on order and am looking forward to pulling some good shots. The L-I has all the right components in a very compact package.Originally posted by Stuffa View PostI agree. I have purchased this machine based on all the imformation I have read. I think this machine will suit me and think it is good value for money. I thought long and hard about waiting until this machine was in the marketplace for a while and fully tested. But hell lifes to short. Hopefully I will get a lot of enjoyment and good coffee out of the Londinium. If I've made the wrong decision so be it. I've put my faith in Reiss and his dream and wish him all the best.
Whether you like the looks of not I am more interested in what my taste buds tell me and a single spring Bosco Group can pull some great shots!
If I really like the experience then I will retire my present espresso device
Cheers!
Stephen
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I agree. I have purchased this machine based on all the imformation I have read. I think this machine will suit me and think it is good value for money. I thought long and hard about waiting until this machine was in the marketplace for a while and fully tested. But hell lifes to short. Hopefully I will get a lot of enjoyment and good coffee out of the Londinium. If I've made the wrong decision so be it. I've put my faith in Reiss and his dream and wish him all the best.Originally posted by MarkZammit View PostThis is an amusing thread.
Don't think I've ever seen so many passionately defended opinions about a machine people are not interested in.
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Given your apparent inability for comprehension, along with a ineptness in the sarcasm dept, I have to question whether or not you would know an exceptional espresso if it dribbled from your mouth whilst talking and writing shite. Dont mind me, Im not a pommy, but then, it becomes more apparent that you you are not gifted in the homework department on any subject so far that you have discussed.Originally posted by Bosco_Lever View PostPeople seeking a lever machine for a domestic environment are generally looking to improve their quality of coffee in the cup. It is not their first espresso machine, and they seek a machine that has been well engineered and constructed. To achieve this they seek commercial quality in a smaller package to fulfill a domestic footprint. They appreciate the work that people like Kees van de Westen and Attilio Bosco have done to achieve a machine able to produce outstanding espresso. Currently there are three machines in this class for people to choose from. In the commercial segment there are numerous single group machines to choose from, but they have to be plumbed in. A major deal breaker for many. Clarity and quality in the cup is one of the major deciding factors for this group of people. Most of them have also gravitated to other coffee sites where others share their passion.
Essentially all espresso machines are stainless steel boxes with a group head (be it lever or E61) bolted to it. They all look boxy and have no resemblance to the machines of old. Kees will not produce a single group lever, and even if he did, it would probably be in the price range of a Speedster, which is out of reach for many enthusiasts. To argue one stainless steel box is uglier than another is something I will leave to others. The Fracino machine put forward as an option is a commercial machine. It is their factory which is producing the Londinium 1 for Reiss. They do have a distributor in my neck of the woods, but their presence in the market is very tiny. The reason for this is obvious. As to looks it is my (and to be honest, quite a few others) opinion, that the Fracino was beaten mercilessly with the ugly stick.
While disliked with a passion here, the L1 is developing quite a following on all the other coffee forums. I look forward to reading the reviews of the L1 elsewhere. I will now get back to my so called misogynist ways ( a phrase frequently used by lying inept rangas), raping and pillaging our country of its natural resources. My colleagues and I enjoy exceptional espresso at my home whilst indulging in our favourite pastime of pommy bashing.
Cheers.
PS: Chris I do need a soap box, I am not vertically challenged.
Im going to leave you with your colleagues doing what you are good at (see above), and will continue to look elsewhere for rational and constructive and accurate information to glean what knowledge I can from informed sources, and exchange what information I have that may be of use to them. It obviously will be of no benefit to you. People can tell you things, but they cant tell you much.
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Without pulling any quotes, you have to appreciate the irony. Talk up a machine you don't know, criticise another you don't know on precisely the same features, bad-mouth someone you don't know.
We're starting to see a pattern here....
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People seeking a lever machine for a domestic environment are generally looking to improve their quality of coffee in the cup. It is not their first espresso machine, and they seek a machine that has been well engineered and constructed. To achieve this they seek commercial quality in a smaller package to fulfill a domestic footprint. They appreciate the work that people like Kees van de Westen and Attilio Bosco have done to achieve a machine able to produce outstanding espresso. Currently there are three machines in this class for people to choose from. In the commercial segment there are numerous single group machines to choose from, but they have to be plumbed in. A major deal breaker for many. Clarity and quality in the cup is one of the major deciding factors for this group of people. Most of them have also gravitated to other coffee sites where others share their passion.
Essentially all espresso machines are stainless steel boxes with a group head (be it lever or E61) bolted to it. They all look boxy and have no resemblance to the machines of old. Kees will not produce a single group lever, and even if he did, it would probably be in the price range of a Speedster, which is out of reach for many enthusiasts. To argue one stainless steel box is uglier than another is something I will leave to others. The Fracino machine put forward as an option is a commercial machine. It is their factory which is producing the Londinium 1 for Reiss. They do have a distributor in my neck of the woods, but their presence in the market is very tiny. The reason for this is obvious. As to looks it is my (and to be honest, quite a few others) opinion, that the Fracino was beaten mercilessly with the ugly stick.
While disliked with a passion here, the L1 is developing quite a following on all the other coffee forums. I look forward to reading the reviews of the L1 elsewhere. I will now get back to my so called misogynist ways ( a phrase frequently used by lying inept rangas), raping and pillaging our country of its natural resources. My colleagues and I enjoy exceptional espresso at my home whilst indulging in our favourite pastime of pommy bashing.
Cheers.
PS: Chris I do need a soap box, I am not vertically challenged.
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Name that machine ?..
This is an amusing thread.
Don't think I've ever seen so many passionately defended opinions about a machine people are not interested in.
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After a long night of working to accommodate different time zones and colleagues, and also watch human nature in action, I once again have seen the results of "political Correctness" in action.
It has come to pass that this evil tool, (devised by a group of socialists in the 1920s to make Communism more acceptable to everyone) has now infiltrated every facet of human interaction. How has it come to be that a person cannot just express a preference or a leaning towards something without it having to be measured against the wishes or standard of the lowest denominator of the majority?
The simple inference or utterance of the phrase, " I dont like it", has unleashed the P.C. inherent in some. I "should" be grateful because so few of these types of machines exist. I "should" consider buying it because it makes lovely coffee and I "should" be happy with my choices. The list goes on and on. It used to make me laugh in the USA when I or other persons not from there offered a mild criticism or wanted to change a process to make a better product or system operation, we would be told, "If you dont like it here, why dont you go back to where you came from!" The sad thing for them is that it was us that owned the companies, and us that invested in 'them', and us that made the businesses successful in spite of them and against their resistant nature. The trade off was good pay, good health benefits and a great working environment in which only 1 person quit in 7 years.
"I dont like the looks of the machine or the size of it" It should not have unleashed a browbeating or attempt at humiliation to "make me" feel that Im not as informed or entitled to my observation. Sadly, Im still not going to rush out and buy it, so all the inferred rebuke has accomplished, is to have been made aware that I cannot have a reasonable discussion with certain people because they have an agenda of their own, and that is that they feel the site sponsors are manipulating the whole coffee scene in their favour. You know, I cant comment on that because I dont know. I really cant. What I do know is that its possible it might be true, and also, given human nature, that it is the common accusation when personal feelings conflict with someone elses authority. In the USA for example, the standard modus operandi in non amicable divorces is for the father to be accused of child abuse, resulting in the mandated arrest and incarceration until sorted out by a judge. It is 99.9% fallacious, but the taint sticks.
If we put aside Political Correctness, and each have a personal preference, then NO ONE can manipulate us. Despite all the good things I hear about the Londinium, it hasnt influenced me to buy it. Conversely if all the Site sponsors dissed it, and I liked it... I would still buy it, its my preference ..screw 'em
Why will I not buy it? I will not buy it because I dont want it in my kitchen the same as I dont want an AGA cooker. Are AGA cookers good? yes! I just dont want one. I think they are too big and not the type of range that would suit my lifestyle. End of. Now if a site sponsor offered me one for $500, I WOULD buy it and make a new case because, and I have no confirmation on this yet, it is purported to be a good coffee maker. My comment should NOT influence you, other than as an indicator of my personal tastes or observation of the machine. If I WERE a retailer, I would have my finger on the pulse of my customers requirements, and see if this fitted their needs. The machine has to sell itself, if I have to sell it other than bring features to the attention of customers then its a hard sell.
All you nasty manipulative site sponsors, tell me your secrets on how you get people to part with their hard earned so easily, in the face of many informed and coffee educated members here
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Well we know the L1 is using only 1 spring, whilst the QM has the dual spring config.Originally posted by coffee_machinist View Post- in this case both Londinium and Quick Mill are using boiler-fed thermosyphons so I would expect performance to be very similar, dependent on what spring Reiss has chosen.
I believe they may also have different piston & seal arrangements ? ( L1 has a 3 seal piston whilst other "Bosco" groups i have seen have had 4 seals ?)
EDIT: I have just confirmed the QM uses 3 seals also ?
I agree these groups are likely all from a common manufacturer, but i have also heard Bosco have a proprietary modified version on their own m/c's ?
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And the bottom half too, I'll warrant. For those that are calling this a Bosco group, it's not - it's made by CMA, and is an updated version of the regular ol' CMA group that has been around since ever. Bosco merely use it, same as Kees, Quick Mill, Londinium and any others I've overlooked. Depending on how big a deal you are, you can go to CMA and say I want it with this or that spring configuration but that's about it, then you are left with what to bolt it to - in this case both Londinium and Quick Mill are using boiler-fed thermosyphons so I would expect performance to be very similar, dependent on what spring Reiss has chosen.Originally posted by chokkidog View PostThe Londinium blog says quite clearly that the top half of the group is the same as the Kees and others.
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No, not a chance. @ maybe low 3k's yes but not 4.6k. My pump driven machine will continue to "float my boat" for some time yet :-).........Originally posted by blend52 View PostBut is it $4600 worth of appeal ?
..NOTE:- if we could get it at the UK price ( 1750 pnds,), it would be much more appealing.
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Well, that is not a review (singular not plural, I could only find the one brief comment from the link provided by Reiss), not even close to a review. (this is a comment purely about the endorsement and not a comment on the performance of the machine).
The Londinium blog says quite clearly that the top half of the group is the same as the Kees and others.
chokkidog, over and out
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This looks appealing, it has a more attractive visual persona. If I brought home a L1 I would have no home to put it in. I for one also find the L1 ugly..........regardless of what it may produce via the PF, sorry :-)Originally posted by garyw View PostFor a modern looking machine. This appears to have cleaner lines.

Steve.
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I stand corrected. Yep, I did read the blog, must've missed that bit. I'll also go and find the comparative review.
I'm won't be convinced by the testimony of one but I'll look.
I guess my point is tho' ... if you want an edge, do something new that will appeal to a wider market than
just the 'function over form' consumers, or do something totally irresistible with current bits and pieces.
You won't build a business selling 2 machines but you might if you can sell 2,000.
My first home m/c was an Isomac Mondiale, to me, when all else was boxy, the 'good from all angles' design
was the element that drove the final choice.
Were there better machines on the market at the time? Yes. A big enough difference to sway my choice? No.
Did it make great coffee and look good? Absolutely!!
Prior to viticulture my background was 15 years a successful and collected potter, so the marriage of form and function (for the things we use), is my interest, not the separation of the two elements.Last edited by chokkidog; 27 November 2012, 05:30 PM.
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