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  • #16
    I hate the idea of purchasing on the net rather than locally from a 'bricks & mortar' outfit but I have found over the years that the local 'bricks & mortar' does not offer me any incentive.
    After sales service and support is often non-existent. Any problems or defects and the item goes off to Sydney or Melbourne. In terms of advice, I get better solutions myself based on research and specialist Forums.
    Case: Interested in buying a quality DSLR camera. Kogan is about $600 cheaper on a $2000. item than the locals. Why would I buy local? What do I get for the extra $600.?
    In relation to coffee machines, it is probably a bit different for the city dwellers who can access a competent local retailer and develop a worthwhile relationship that will last a long time.
    I think certain kinds of specialist retailers should definitely look at how they can charge for advice and expertise. I would be happy to pay for this kind of support if I choose to buy from elsewhere.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rocky View Post
      ICase: Interested in buying a quality DSLR camera. Kogan is about $600 cheaper on a $2000. item than the locals. Why would I buy local? What do I get for the extra $600.?

      Completely OT, but make sure the DSLR is not grey import, the Nikons/Canon service center does not uphold warranty for non aus stock

      A good example though of a store's initiative to bring buyers in. Our local photography shop gives free Intro to DSLR courses to anyone tha purchases a DSLR body from them.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by fruity View Post
        Indeed, if someone came to me asking to match a Kogan price I'd suggest they buy from Kogan, and just pay me for support and service after the fact. :P

        The problem certainly isn't unique to coffee equipment sales, as we see it in both fashion and technology here. Tech is particularly difficult due to restrictive trade practices employed by the various distributors in Australia (exclusive rights of sale, deliberately restricting supply, offering "cost" prices well above MSRP).
        Tech's actually an easy one, because it's easy to select a product based on reviews and specs without ever seeing your options first-hand.

        With things like clothes, motorcycle gear and to a certain extent coffee machines, the fit and ergonomics make a large difference and the value of having a proper look-see (and expert advice) is more valuable.

        If you need help with your purchase or are after a "solution" you should be buying from the store that you get it from (if they're providing any kind of tailored advice/consultation). If you're happy doing your own messing around with research and potential problems then the service isn't worth anything to you so I wouldn't pay for it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
          Tech's actually an easy one, because it's easy to select a product based on reviews and specs without ever seeing your options first-hand.

          With things like clothes, motorcycle gear and to a certain extent coffee machines, the fit and ergonomics make a large difference and the value of having a proper look-see (and expert advice) is more valuable.

          If you need help with your purchase or are after a "solution" you should be buying from the store that you get it from (if they're providing any kind of tailored advice/consultation). If you're happy doing your own messing around with research and potential problems then the service isn't worth anything to you so I wouldn't pay for it.
          Well that's partially true: tech is easy if you understand the tech. But then you probably won't need advice anyway. Or you just buy Apple and be done with it. ;-)

          (He says typing away on an iPhone)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
            Tech's actually an easy one, because it's easy to select a product based on reviews and specs without ever seeing your options first-hand.

            With things like clothes, motorcycle gear and to a certain extent coffee machines, the fit and ergonomics make a large difference and the value of having a proper look-see (and expert advice) is more valuable.

            If you need help with your purchase or are after a "solution" you should be buying from the store that you get it from (if they're providing any kind of tailored advice/consultation). If you're happy doing your own messing around with research and potential problems then the service isn't worth anything to you so I wouldn't pay for it.
            Yeh, I have no problem buying non-mains powered electronics (e.g. digital camera) from internet sources (would prefer a locally based one), and I expect nothing in terms of after-sales service....it's as much due to the fact that I don't enjoy the shopping process. For AV equipment / white goods, I get prices on line and head to HN or similar and ask how close they can get to those. Happy to pay a bit more to buy local....and in my experience the local HN bloke has beaten the best (local) internet price on AV gear. I take up about 5 seconds of their time, and they either have a sale or they don't. On the other hand, another local franchise based retailer has twice treated me quite rudely when I'd explained that I wasn't sure if I was going to make a purchase on that very day (I did....just up the road....and would have been happy to pay a bit more to avoid rewarding the other cretin).

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            • #21
              Agree it is very poor form to use a small, local operator's time and expertise in choosing, and then buying online or anywhere else.

              However I had an experience last year that was gobsmacking. Went into a local small shoe shop that generally stocks better quality shoes to look for some business shoes. They had signs up everywhere saying that if you are here to find out your size with an intention of buying online, then rack off. I agreed with the sentiment. But then after trying on a pair and finding they were a tad too small, and they didn't have any larger sizes in stock, I told the owner that this is the only pair I am keen on and if she could just order in a size bigger I will buy them. I even offered to pay right there and then as proof I wasn't there to waste her time. She replied, no that's more a shoe we sell in winter so I won't be ordering more until winter (many months away). I stated but you can sell a pair right now, again noting I would pay now. She again replied no I won't be ordering those until winter, come back for them then. I informed her I won't be coming back then or ever. Unbelievable!

              It turned out well for me, as I found another Aussie bricks and mortar which had handmade in Aus shoes. Stoked to support an aussie still hand making shoes.

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              • #22
                Pavoniboy, the exact same thing happened to me a couple of years ago in a shoe shop...except these people were the only local shop who carried the shoe line.

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                • #23
                  Interesting topic.

                  A couple of things spring to mind:

                  1) Several times in the past I have gone into a shop to check out something I wanted to buy online. If asked if I need assistance I would always reply honestly - usually this is well received and usually it is taken as a challenge to the salesperson to get a sale.

                  2) The sort of behaviour Chris described is simply dishonest and must be infuriating, however, I feel that a retailer should not be overly suspicious (see Pavoniboy's story) as it will be counterproductive. Retailers who are personable, open and generous with their time (like all the CS sponsors I have spoken to) create an impression of confidence and competence that lasts in customers' minds. The return for the retailer is not always immediate, sometimes much later. I recently spent around 30 minutes on the phone to Rick (coffee machinist) getting advice on a machine I ended up buying 2nd hand. Rick has not received anything for this 30 minutes, but he was so generous and helpful, that I will be seeking him out for service and repairs when the time comes.

                  Note to Chris - don't let the dishonest few parasites ruin excellent customer service for the rest of us. Just my 2 cents.

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                  • #24
                    I recently spent around 30 minutes on the phone to Rick (coffee machinist) getting advice on a machine I ended up buying 2nd hand. Rick has not received anything for this 30 minutes, but he was so generous and helpful...
                    ...that I sent him a cheque for the 1/2 hour consultation with what I saved?

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                    • #25
                      or a bottle of GOOD wine, a BIG box of chocolates, a kilo OR TWO of coffee, a slab of NICE beer…………..something!

                      Bizarre.

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                      • #26
                        I can't tell if you (Chokki/Andy) are joking, but just because someone's in business doesn't mandate putting a price on their time and expertise.

                        Expecting payment for a favour is just as offensive as using a shop to scope out an online purchase...

                        Y'all guilt-trip worse than my mother.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                          or a bottle of GOOD wine, a BIG box of chocolates, a kilo OR TWO of coffee, a slab of NICE beer…………..something!

                          Bizarre.
                          How much would you charge for this pearl?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                            ...just because someone's in business doesn't mandate putting a price on their time and expertise.
                            Putting a price on one's time and expertise is pretty much the definition of being in business!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                              Expecting payment for a favour is just as offensive as using a shop to scope out an online purchase....
                              Conversely, expecting favour after favour and for no return is just plain exploitative and believe me it happens. I sad to admit that I currently have a list of a dozen or so numbers which I have learned not to answer...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lounger View Post
                                How much would you charge for this pearl?
                                How much?? Nah, mate, pearls are priceless ;-D

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