Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Showrooming...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Conversely, expecting favour after favour and for no return is just plain exploitative and believe me it happens. I sad to admit that I currently have a list of a dozen or so numbers which I have learned not to answer...
    No doubt; the only point I was making is that I think it's a bit of a sad thing to shame someone for not paying for a favour, if that's what was happening.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
      No doubt; the only point I was making is that I think it's a bit of a sad thing to shame someone for not paying for a favour, if that's what was happening.
      I think that's part of the problem here. You consider it a "favour" but I'm pretty sure the businessperson involved would consider it a service. No one pays the bills with favours.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
        I think that's part of the problem here. You consider it a "favour" but I'm pretty sure the businessperson involved would consider it a service. No one pays the bills with favours.
        Everybody has the freedom to ask questions, everybody has the right to decline to answer.
        A couple of months ago I asked Chris for input on a review I was doing on an imported coffee roaster. He politely declined and I respected his time and decision...hopefully the 30 second conversation did not put me on your banned list.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
          No doubt; the only point I was making is that I think it's a bit of a sad thing to shame someone for not paying for a favour, if that's what was happening.
          +1
          By definition, it's not a favour if you are paying for it

          This is a rather ironic conversation on an Internet forum; a place where free information (solicited and unsolicited) is essentially the whole point.

          While I can completely understand the frustration of the OP, I wonder how many 'easy' sales have been made by sponsors, after members have been to a local store and checked out a product? Or after having read (freely provided) advice or reviews online? Swings and roundabouts.

          Comment


          • #35
            I can see your where you're coming from, Mr Jack but sponsors pay good money for the privilege of giving out this 'free' advice.

            If I was a sponsor I would be hoping for some return.

            When you do a thorough reading of the posts you'll also find that it's income from the sponsors that subsidises the import costs
            and makes possible the very modest retail price of the green beans on BeanBay that we love so much.

            When taken from a selfish 'me' and 'I' perspective it might seem a little tight - not giving free advice, at length, but if you put
            yourself in the retailer/service tech point of view and the phone rings ad infinitum nearly all day………………..

            I'm not a sponsor but if I was paid for every phone call, or every time I have been intercepted going about my personal life,
            by people wanting free advice about how to grow grapes, I wouldn't have a mortgage. I've been out of the game for over a year
            and it still happens.

            My meaning here may not be clear……….

            If you're asking for 'free' advice; post your query on the forum but if it's a private, professional consultation you're after
            then you shouldn't expect it to be an extension of the forum.
            Last edited by chokkidog; 20 September 2013, 01:40 PM. Reason: My meaning is…….

            Comment


            • #36
              To be more accurate, sponsors pay for exclusive exposure and a level of protection(ism?) in a community composed entirely of their target market, which gives them the opportunity to bring in substantial additional revenue. That's one side of their participation in the CS community.

              The other is as posters, which gives them the opportunity to give free advice (just like the rest of us) if they so choose or not.

              The only problem here is when people fail to see the distinction. If I PM a sponsor and as them whether they (as someone with specific experience) find a difference between grinder A and grinder B because I'm considering a used grinder vs a different model from their store, that's fine.

              If I PM a sponsor asking whether a product they offer does XYZ, that's also fine (IMO).

              If I PM/call a sponsor and ask for their assistance with a problem, then that's something that I would expect/offer to pay for, because now we're going from customer inquiry to trying to get a service for free. If they were a personal friend then I wouldn't have to ask myself whether it's appropriate, but some people seem to think "I've posted on the same forum for a while, shot the breeze with him a couple of times, now he's a mate and I can treat him as such when it suits me".

              If I wanted input on a problem that wasn't directly related to a potential business dealing, then I'd put it in a thread and if I'm lucky, a knowledgeable sponsor might have time and chime in on the thread (as might any knowledgeable random person).

              The thing is, it's got nothing to do with being a sponsor, it's to do with respecting the value of any person's time. I suspect that there are probably busy people on here whose time is monetarily more valuable than that of a sponsor, and they probably wouldn't appreciate being engaged at length any more than a sponsor would. Unfortunately for sponsors, their contact details are there for all to see and people don't always make the distinction between business discussion and forum discussion.

              *EDIT* I'll admit, I've been guilty of this this once; emailing Andy with a question about a machine he'd previously owned, assuming that he was set to no-PMs because he's an admin, rather than because he's busy as all hell. To his credit, he gave me a few pointers and made it clear that his email was for business purposes, but it's something I should have thought about earlier; I don't have the email addresses of Admins/Mods on other forums and the only reason I have Andy's is because or prior business dealings.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                people don't always make the distinction between business discussion and forum discussion.[/B]
                That's about the crux of it. ;-D

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                  If I PM/call a sponsor and ask for their assistance with a problem, then that's something that I would expect/offer to pay for.....
                  You'd be the first EVER Dragunov....

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    For me, the shopping/comparison process is just the a part of the overall sales process. We don't expect to sell something to everyone that comes into our modest showroom.

                    In a recent HBR article the example of eBay was discussed and the figure was something like 95% of site visitors don't even bid or sell on the site, just browsing or using it for comparison. So 95% of their infrastructure costs are going to non-purchasers. Ouch.

                    The article went on to say how it is important to control the costs of that 95%, work out how to give them a good experience and then work with them to convert to clients. Let me know if you want a link and I'll search the journals

                    We find for our demonstrations we keep them as sales demonstration which is different to use instructional session. We provide the use and instruction as part of the after sale.

                    In the past I was running 'training' session that customers whom had purchased elsewhere could attend. This allowed us to fit them into a time that fitted with our schedules and also allowed us to know how much time we put on the sessions.

                    Cheers


                    Wayne

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                      You'd be the first EVER Dragunov....
                      To be fair, it's never come up, and I'm not sure it ever would.


                      These days, if something is within the scope of DIY then I can most likely find the information for free on a forum or similar. If not then I'll be paying for a professional service anyway.


                      I know I bring it up a lot in these sorts of conversations, but there have been times where I've contacted motorbike dealers to ask how much they'd charge to let me try a few helmets for sizing (once they wanted fifty bucks, which still left me 100 ahead, and once I was told to go myself with a pinecone, which is fair enough).


                      The thing with helmets is that consumers can often get helmets at substantially below Australian wholesale cost, so even if I were to pay their entire margin on a given helmet, I'd still be ahead. (No, I don't feel like getting into another Aust. Standards discussion :P )

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I get the feeling that buying stuff on the net has become a hobby for a lot of people.
                        It's about "today I saved $$$ on this, and yesterday I saved $$$ on that", etc.
                        I know a few people who I think buy very little locally except food.
                        They will grumble that 'you can't buy ANYTHING locally".
                        Of course they are contributing to that situation.
                        Where the local businesses often seem to fall down is their customer service.
                        Lack of interest in selling something that isn't actually on the floor or requires some research and an order.
                        The delivery times on orders from other parts of Aus. have often been quite ridiculous.
                        The moment I sense a lack of desire for my business I'm out the door.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=Rocky;510282
                          The delivery times on orders from other parts of Aus. have often been quite ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

                          No kidding. Sometimes I can get goods from Hong Kong or the US quicker than I can get it from Perth or Sydney.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hi Chris,

                            The answer to the person who already says they won't buy from you but wants you to answer questions is: "Our consulting fees are ..."

                            IMO charging fees up front is "not on" for the regular sort of pre-sale contact. Anyone who does that is likely to have less business rather than more.

                            When the "pre-sale" questions start to get into what I would call "after-sales service/consulting" then that needs to be made clear to the customer, with only general comments regarding what is possible/impossible delivered without a sale.

                            It's always a tough balance to get right--especially when it's close to the turn-over between pre and post. Unfortunately when you are the expert someone is likely to want your expertise for free.

                            A doctor specialist friend, when approached for these free services at parties, used to say: "I never give opinions without a full exam. Take off all your clothes and lie down."
                            (I don't know how that would work for you.)

                            Greg

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by GregWormald View Post
                              A doctor specialist friend, when approached for these free services at parties, used to say: "I never give opinions without a full exam. Take off all your clothes and lie down."
                              (I don't know how that would work for you.)

                              Greg
                              Hmm great idea, but given the demographic of my market, I think I'll pass thanks Greg!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Chris,

                                The way I see it, you unfortunatey have built your business around a topic that requires a lot of knowledge/learning. Therefore as a retailer you're naturally going to be used as a library resource. I'm also a homebrewer and its the same there - every store is a retailer and knowledge resource. Go into a homebrew store on a Saturday, its full of middle-aged dudes talking beer. The key however is capitalising on it. You are complaining about being exploited for no return. Fair enough. but you are also popular and regularly sought out. That is a win right there.

                                Now i've been through this process discussed above. I did my research online, called a few retailers for opinions about what suits my budget etc - and actually bought from you. I came to your store and picked it up (Lelit PL60 - ex demo). What happened there is we had a coffee, we chatted, and you upsold me on some extras.

                                Use the popularity to your advantage, get them to come in, make your store a resource for gear and knowledge. Sure you'll get people who will burn you but many will also buy. The worst outcome would be if nobody called you for advice.

                                Look at Andy - he owns the conversation literally. He's built the business around the library. I guess I'm saying it won't go away, that's coffee - its hard, we need to learn from someone. Own it and exploit it to your advantage or complain and watch it vanish.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X