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Windows 8.1 on a new desk top, early thoughts.

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  • malliemcg
    replied
    I must say I find the way the Start screen behaves is that it's very wasteful with screen real estate and jarring to use. Pulling me out of all my apps and work flow when I want to start something up quickly. I used to use the Win7 start menu as a launcher (Ctrl-Esc | (type) app name | enter). I think as a tablet OS an x86 Win8.x would be the bees knees.

    My daily use now sees me using OS X, Android, Linux, AIX, Win7 and Win8.1, I have my definite order of preference, and Win8 is was down the bottom for me and my workflows using keyboards and mice.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamount
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Ummmm..... no... it isn't. Simple as that.

    or... perhaps I should have said "As complicated as that."

    Windows is just not user friendly, or idiot proof enough to be considered the Nespresso of the IT world. The superior flexibility, power and potential of a Windows based system demands a level of user skill and depth of knowledge that Apple/Nespresso-type interfaces do not.
    Sorry for being unclear. Rather than it's ease of use I was alluding to the taste of the end product. Suffice to say I have no plans to buy a Nespresso thang of any description.

    Then again, there is no accounting for taste.

    As for Windows 8.1, I'm typing in it right now on my very own laptop.

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Windows 8.1 on a new desk top, early thoughts.

    Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    About 18 months ago (or so), a Sophos update caused Sophos to recognise itself as a virus, and quarantine itself. Was a real hoot.
    And it's happened to nearly every AV product at sometime or another. Some have even been found to compromise a computer more than protect it (again, Sophos is guilty here: an exploit in their Endpoint product allowed full remote control of a machine).

    The joys of kernel-mode drivers. AV gets the keys to the kingdom and sometimes forgets to lock the front door.

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Dunno what AV you're using, but the idea is to recognise, halt and wipe malicious payloads before (or worst case, as) they run and NOD 32 is, by my estimation, very effective at doing this.
    ESET initially missed CryptoLocker (see their own forums). Nearly every AV did. Then most continued to miss each new variant until their databases caught up (usually within a day or two, but long enough to cause major havoc). A few AVs removed CryptoLocker AFTER it had encrypted their data, thereby removing the option for users to pay for decryption.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vinitasse
    replied
    Originally posted by pamount View Post
    Windows is the Nespresso of the IT world.
    Ummmm..... no... it isn't. Simple as that.

    or... perhaps I should have said "As complicated as that."

    Windows is just not user friendly, or idiot proof enough to be considered the Nespresso of the IT world. The superior flexibility, power and potential of a Windows based system demands a level of user skill and depth of knowledge that Apple/Nespresso-type interfaces do not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    About 18 months ago (or so), a Sophos update caused Sophos to recognise itself as a virus, and quarantine itself. Was a real hoot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragunov21
    replied
    Dunno what AV you're using, but the idea is to recognise, halt and wipe malicious payloads before (or worst case, as) they run and NOD 32 is, by my estimation, very effective at doing this.

    The only risk, besides being one of the first victims of an undocumented piece of code, is intentionally disabling it (which idiots will do to install cracked software, given half a chance).

    ESET also maintain a database of potentially unwanted websites and disallows connection to them in the first place, which aids in avoiding exposure in the first place, let alone infection.

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    I was talking more from a privilege escalation/management perspective, but that's a superficially-informed opinion; I'm not as across it as I'd need to be to form a proper position.



    This is naive at best. You'll notice that the costs and user-resistance to those features is generally med-high. They're feasible for systems where there are a limited set of tasks that need to be performed, but for companies that need to utilise a changing spread of applications to work efficiently, it's not so simple (in that it has to be balanced with end-user needs/wants).

    If malware are STIs, AV is like a condom and you're advocating abstinence. It's definitely better but it's not necessarily feasible, especially when the end user is resistant to the idea and will actively work against you to do what they want.
    That's just it though, from a privilege/escalation point of view, Windows has the right security in place, just people don't like using it (UAC is one of those features). You can do a helluva lot with the default built-in tools.

    I get that it's "hard" to do security properly. I wouldn't set up that kind of security system on your average mum and dad, but for Pamount (who seems pretty switched on) it's definitely workable. Antivirus is reactive, not really protective: it recognises known threats well, but is weak against new threats. Stopping "virus.exe" from executing at all is much better than letting your AV try to recognise "virus.exe" as bad.

    In your analogy, AV is more antibiotics: you get infected, but prompt treatment is usually sufficient. But it can't treat everything, and adding some basic whitelisting is a simple and very effective measure. It will certainly protect you from many of the nastier bugs we've seen recently (like CryptoLocker, which, I might add, walked straight through nearly every AV on the market).

    I wouldn't recommend anyone completely remove their AV solution unless you REALLY know what you're doing. Fortunately Windows 8 has built-in AV so you'd have to try hard to actually remove it.

    Anyway, we've kinda moved well beyond basic Windows 8 discussion; probably not really relevant for the vast majority here. If anyone wants some help with securing their machine properly beyond AV: feel free to PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragunov21
    replied
    Originally posted by fruity View Post
    Susceptibility is probably the wrong word there, but I get your meaning: there are many more active threats to Windows than other platforms. That's probably more to do with market share than anything else.
    I was talking more from a privilege escalation/management perspective, but that's a superficially-informed opinion; I'm not as across it as I'd need to be to form a proper position.

    Originally posted by fruity View Post
    Alternately, skip the AV all together and focus on securing your PC "the right way". That's probably a much longer discussion had via PM. Here's a good start, particularly the top 4: Strategies to Mitigate Targeted Cyber Intrusions: ASD Australian Signals Directorate (formerly DSD)
    This is naive at best. You'll notice that the costs and user-resistance to those features is generally med-high. They're feasible for systems where there are a limited set of tasks that need to be performed, but for companies that need to utilise a changing spread of applications to work efficiently, it's not so simple (in that it has to be balanced with end-user needs/wants).

    If malware are STIs, AV is like a condom and you're advocating abstinence. It's definitely better but it's not necessarily feasible, especially when the end user is resistant to the idea and will actively work against you to do what they want.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrahamK
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    As a matter of interest BHP Billiton, you may have heard of them (the worlds largest mining company) choose to use Windows exclusively
    Bottom Line is its horses for courses, just because BHP have a MS policy, there are many large organisation that have a Non-MS policy or Apple policy. These policies would be based on many things, requirements, usage, history, TCO, interfaces, cost, skills availability, good salesman, bad salesman, CTOs preferences and knowledge ....... etc.

    Pretty naïve to think these decisions are based solely on one set of preferences, or sexiness etc.

    I worked for decades on an operating system that was massively superior to Unix, Windows from the word go, (developed in the 70s). Bottom line was, being too proprietary, expensive etc, eventually made it too expensive and difficult to develop applications to run on them and shortage of skills eventually meant it was easier to adapt to the market trends, and buy out-the-box applications which are easier to interface with partners etc.

    So it goes... good marketing, popularity and therefore eventually costs win out over advanced technology.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by pamount View Post
    (I'll accept recommendations for other anti virus software).

    I won't put people down for using Windows. It does suit a lot of people and good for them if they like it. I just happen to prefer Apple.
    Fair enough! as they say, to each his own.

    Re AV software, have been using Bitdefender for a couple of years, seems to do the job pretty well, although they have been annoying me of late with numerous reminders that renewal is due in a couple of months, to the point that its become intrusive.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamount
    replied
    Originally posted by fruity View Post
    AVG is pretty buggy at the moment: it's known for corrupting user profiles (hey look, a Windows stability issue caused by a third party!). If you want a freebie stick with Microsoft's own one.

    Alternately, skip the AV all together and focus on securing your PC "the right way". That's probably a much longer discussion had via PM. Here's a good start, particularly the top 4: Strategies to Mitigate Targeted Cyber Intrusions: ASD Australian Signals Directorate (formerly DSD)
    No. Do not skip anti virus software protection on Windows. AVG is available for free for personal use. There are other choices of anti virus software.

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Originally posted by pamount View Post
    I'm sure the OP will have a lot of pleasure from using Windows 8.1. I'm using Windows 8.1 myself. People still need to be realistic about Windows being unstable in some cases as well as the need for a good anti virus program like AVG (I'll accept recommendations for other anti virus software).

    I won't put people down for using Windows. It does suit a lot of people and good for them if they like it. I just happen to prefer Apple.
    AVG is pretty buggy at the moment: it's known for corrupting user profiles (hey look, a Windows stability issue caused by a third party!). If you want a freebie stick with Microsoft's own one.

    Alternately, skip the AV all together and focus on securing your PC "the right way". That's probably a much longer discussion had via PM. Here's a good start, particularly the top 4: http://www.asd.gov.au/infosec/top-mi...2014-table.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • fruity
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    There are plenty of arguments for using Windows for business. Stability isn't one of them. Nor is safety (in terms of susceptibility to viruses).
    Susceptibility is probably the wrong word there, but I get your meaning: there are many more active threats to Windows than other platforms. That's probably more to do with market share than anything else.

    We're seeing a lot more malware emerge for both OSX & Linux now that they're growing; and OSX in particular doesn't have the security ethos Windows has been forced into over the last decade. Hell, OSX still ships with the built-in firewall turned off!

    With the emergence of very advanced state-sponsored malware targeting mobile platforms as well as traditional desktops, we're in for an interesting future.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamount
    replied
    I'm sure the OP will have a lot of pleasure from using Windows 8.1. I'm using Windows 8.1 myself. People still need to be realistic about Windows being unstable in some cases as well as the need for a good anti virus program like AVG (I'll accept recommendations for other anti virus software).

    I won't put people down for using Windows. It does suit a lot of people and good for them if they like it. I just happen to prefer Apple.

    Leave a comment:

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