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  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
    That could cut both ways. The future may lie in developing new technologies or improving existing ones. These days, or for the foreseeable future, it's more about the latter. I agree that copper appears to have had its run but I think there's plenty of potential in fibre and laser technology.
    +1. One of the many true strengths of fibre is that it is not inherently speed limited. Later in the '90's Melbourne Uni developed multiplexing on fibre and their testing had 64 simultaneous channels of data using the same piece of "glorified fishing line" (i.e. standard fibre) at 1Gb per channel. Technology sold to Cisco at a pittance at the time (another political bit of myopia). Reputedly Cisco recouped the cost in one quarter! They probably boosted the raw 1Gb speed a lot after that - 256Gb/sec per data stream was also available at the same time. The laser transceivers were actually not the bottleneck at that time, it was the electronics needed to feed the gaping maw.

    The other issue in Oz is the maximum distance between fibre transceivers. Another Oz political giveaway was the development of special fibre cable which massively reduced the total internal reflections to near zero. End result: distance between transceivers could be around 200Kms if I recall correctly. The early "across the Nulla" fibre cable had roughly 10Kms between transceivers. Quite a difference in costs when rolling out over long distances.

    Add both of those tech's together and the need for cables as thick as your wrist disappears, as does the tyranny of distance.

    Unlike copper, another of fibres strengths is that you cannot detect the signal and / or cable with metal detectors or any such toy. No hostile entity (not that the world has any of those these days...) could detect where the main communication links are buried or do any "wiretapping" (monitoring) with cheap gear. Splicing into large scale fibre cables is tricky, expensive and easily detected. Of course the downside is that any pleb with a digger can nuke an underground cable without realising it. One such idiot took out the entire SW of WA for a few days a while back, completely ignoring the numerous signs on the surface warning of underground cable nearby. Sigh. A certain Telco starting with "T" could not see the point of using a spiderweb layout instead of a straight line with no redundancy. Hopefully NBN learnt that lesson.

    The amount of sheer garbage being broadcast via wireless these days is actually affecting a lot of sensitive gear, resulting in things like the square kilometer array telescope finding it difficult to find "RF quiet" areas to operate across the whole planet. Add to that the immense power hunger (due to inefficiency) of wireless (energy crisis, what crisis?) and fibre looks increasingly attractive.

    Newer technologies may make all that redundant however the development of the motor car did not remove the need for roads...

    TampIt

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Originally posted by blend52 View Post
    Sure, but The key word there was "future"..!I have no idea what that technology might be, but i have total faith in the ingenuity of the human mind!
    That could cut both ways. The future may lie in developing new technologies or improving existing ones. These days, or for the foreseeable future, it's more about the latter. I agree that copper appears to have had its run but I think there's plenty of potential in fibre and laser technology.

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  • blend52
    replied
    Sure, but The key word there was "future"..!
    I have no idea what that technology might be, but i have total faith in the ingenuity of the human mind.
    its not that long ago since the first telephone call was made, now we are all constantly contactable by cell technology, not just voice but full data , video , gps, etc.
    in that context , copper cable, and fibre, just seem a little.... "Dated" !

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Originally posted by blend52 View Post
    i cannot help thinking that this whole wasted investment in "holes and wires" is going to be made redundant by some even faster wireless/satelite based system in the not to distant future.
    No, I don't think so. Satellite is still very expensive and only used where it isn't feasible to run cables or mobile networks - there's also the lag generated by signals having to travel ~36000k and back between earth and satellite. Wireless can't reach everywhere even with the mega-speeds of 5G.
    The current nbn MTM is hamstrung by relying on the old copper access network (CAN) and HFC. Technology has just about wrung every available bit of bandwidth out of copper, especially the CAN. HFC still has potential as the DOCSIS standard is developed (currently up to ver3.1) but the coaxial part of the network still requires maintenance.
    We are better off investing in fibre; proper FTTP.
    For example, a lot has been said recently about meeting the infrastructure demands of a growing population. Providing a proper fibre only network could help solve that by people working from home both in metropolitan and regional areas, thus reducing pressure on roads and transport.

    flynn "former telco employee" aus

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  • blend52
    replied
    Originally posted by TampIt View Post
    Oh, and for those who think the current mess is a cheaper way to do it than the original plan - wrong, wrong, wrong. ....".
    for sure the relavent Government of the day has to take responsibility for the numerous dud decisions along the way, but i do wonder who were the technical "expert" advisors proposing the options and recomendations to the relavent decision makers ?
    Im no expert myself , but i cannot help thinking that this whole wasted investment in "holes and wires" is going to be made redundant by some even faster wireless/satelite based system in the not to distant future.��

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  • 338
    replied
    TPG now compensating clients for low speeds - iiNet and Internode to compensate 11,000 NBN customers for slow speeds - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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  • TampIt
    replied
    Any of my clients without their own domain (i.e. running *.com, *.net or whatever service) have always been on one of the many free email providers - usually "myway" (better privacy) or "yahoo" (needed a lot of filtering to remove spam back then) historically. The only issue I have ever had was when myway shut down with one month or so advance warning. It was one hell of a busy time for my company... After nearly 20 years with iinet, not having a "locked in email" also stood me personally in good stead when TPG took them over / trashed the brand. Moving ISP was trivial - as it should be.

    NBN: I am now with "mate telecomm" as are a number of my clients. Cheap, cheerful, Oz call centre and no contracts. As yet they have not pissed any of us off, so it has been over a year with no complaints for any of us. Mind you, we are mostly using top quality routers (Netcomm) which they provided at a fair cost. I still tend to use Netgear routers to replace "no router / cheap Chinese piece of crap routers", however the Netcomms have been good so far. At up to 50MBits/sec they are rock solid - no way for me to test beyond that at any site here thanks to the politically inspired nuking of the NBN throughput. Not one of my client sites in W.A. can do better than 75MBits/sec actual line speed. "Fraudband".

    Oh, and for those who think the current mess is a cheaper way to do it than the original plan - wrong, wrong, wrong. The major cost is actually digging all the holes in the ground, which should be a one off exercise. The current mess (particularly the HFC - even worse than FTTN in lieu of FTTP) will cost oceans in maintenance. If I were not semi retired, I would be making squillions on every breakdown and fixing them all properly with FTTP anyway... which a number of NBN techs are actually doing "under the radar" right now (quite a few of them in the west are guys I trained and some I even employed). "Do it once, do it right" is always the cheapest long term option.

    Mind you - if the 1990 rollout of "replacement of faults with fibre" plus "all new rollouts will be fibre" had continued, we would all have a real broadband by early 2000's at negligible extra cost. Such are the clueless idiots in Canberra (both major parties) and their "policies". To quote despair.com on government: "If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions".

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  • jbrewster
    replied
    FWIW most decent providers will let you switch to "email only" for a relatively cheap monthly fee these days.

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  • 338
    replied
    I am one of those ones who would agree with not having a tied email. No point being held hostage when your internet has been down a week and their call centre in the Philippines has blocked your calls If you don't like gmail or similar register a domain name (say family name or business name) and get cheap hosting for email only, probably a couple of dollars a month. Then put a redirection on your present emails now and notify friends and colleagues of the new one. Then in a year or two when the s### hits the fan you have freedom to do what you want. Today's best fit for your telecommunications may not be tomorrows.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by blend52 View Post
    That was one of the primary reasons i switched to Gmail when it became available, so that i could ditch Telstra Bigpond and try other SPs.
    The flexibility of Gmail etc is the pure convenience of picking up mail anywhere , on any device easily and quickly, on a well developed interface.
    I do the same world wide with Telstra using Webmail.

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  • blend52
    replied
    Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Yep, 12 years with TPG and a number of ********@tpg.com.au email addresses. As you can imagine 12 years of use creates lots of connections and a real headache to notify all of these that I've changed an email address. I also have gmail addresses for non-critical use but was always of the opinion that if you wanted to keep it private and secure (as much as you can these days), don't send it via gmail.
    but now those Tpg email adresses make changing SPs a headache !
    That was one of the primary reasons i switched to Gmail when it became available, so that i could ditch Telstra Bigpond and try other SPs.
    The flexibility of Gmail etc is the pure convenience of picking up mail anywhere , on any device easily and quickly, on a well developed interface.
    I doubt they are any less private than most other email hosts..Google in particular being one of the more security concious platforms.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
    It's probably in your privacy statement. This is part of mine. I would be pretty sure that personal info passed on for those intending to market would come with a cost and I won't be getting a share of that. Yes, you can opt out but how many people bother to read user agreements etc before agreeing to it.
    Have never bothered to read the Telstra privacy blurb until now, it pretty much says, we collect the data and will do as we please with it, not surprised.

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Morning Flynn, pretty dodgy, how were you made aware of this?
    It's probably in your privacy statement. This is part of mine. I would be pretty sure that personal info passed on for those intending to market would come with a cost and I won't be getting a share of that. Yes, you can opt out but how many people bother to read user agreements etc before agreeing to it.

    Also, your personal information is collected
    so that we, our related bodies and our dealers can promote and market services to you (including by way of direct mail, telemarketing, email, SMS and MMS messages).
    This is to keep you informed of products, services and special offers and may continue after you cease acquiring services from us. If you do not wish us, our related bodies or our dealers to contact you to promote and market products, services and special offers to you, please call xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

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  • CafeLotta
    replied
    Originally posted by blend52 View Post
    Wow, ! You still have a "tied" email address ?
    Yep, 12 years with TPG and a number of ********@tpg.com.au email addresses. As you can imagine 12 years of use creates lots of connections and a real headache to notify all of these that I've changed an email address. I also have gmail addresses for non-critical use but was always of the opinion that if you wanted to keep it private and secure (as much as you can these days), don't send it via gmail.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
    On the other hand, my ISP has also seen fit to sell my data to 3rd party providers.
    Morning Flynn, pretty dodgy, how were you made aware of this?

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