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  • #16
    My feeling is that imposing quotas of any type is a flawed concept, I really don't care whether any administrating body is comprised of all women, all men or a mix of both, what is far more important is that the best able/qualified people are chosen regardless of gender.

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    • #17
      and when, through quotas, women form a critical mass near enough to 50%, then quotas will lose relevance and fall away while people can be selected entirely on merit, without prejudicial bias that exists today.

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      • #18
        How could you not believe, what Ita tells you is true ?

        after all....
        Every day and every night
        She's the only one we can depend upon !

        I believe, in what she says....Yes I do
        Don't you?

        I believe, at the end of the day
        Her ABC will get us through.

        To every housewife throughout the land
        There is No-One else they can depend upon...

        Oh goodness gracious ....God help us !

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        • #19
          Ita Buttrose new chair ABC board

          Originally posted by Yelta View Post
          My feeling is that imposing quotas of any type is a flawed concept, I really don't care whether any administrating body is comprised of all women, all men or a mix of both, what is far more important is that the best able/qualified people are chosen regardless of gender.
          I think that gender quotas are a reaction to employers not picking the best person for the job.
          Last edited by woodhouse; 14 March 2019, 10:33 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
            How could you not believe, what Ita tells you is true ?

            after all....
            Every day and every night
            She's the only one we can depend upon !

            I believe, in what she says....Yes I do
            Don't you?

            I believe, at the end of the day
            Her ABC will get us through.

            To every housewife throughout the land
            There is No-One else they can depend upon...

            Oh goodness gracious ....God help us !
            Yeh well, she's just savouring familiar sights .

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Yelta View Post
              My feeling is that imposing quotas of any type is a flawed concept, I really don't care whether any administrating body is comprised of all women, all men or a mix of both, what is far more important is that the best able/qualified people are chosen regardless of gender.
              Yes, that's why we need quotas: without them it appears that middle aged white guys always seem to think that the "best able / qualified people" are other midddle aged white guys.

              On the perfectly reasonable assumption that the most able people are spread across the population, quotas do not prevent the most able people being hired unless the hiring organisation is playing catchup because of an unbalanced previous hiring policy. In this case the fault is with the previous policy, not the quota.

              BTW I'm a middle aged white guy, so this is not an argument from self interest.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                Yes, that's whay we need quotas: without them it appears that middle aged white guys always seem to think that the "best able / qualified people" are other midddle aged white guys.

                On the perfectly reasonable assumption that the most able people are spread across the population, quotas do not prevent the most able people being hired unless the hiring organisation is playing catchup because of an unbalanced previous hiring policy. In this case the fault is with the previous policy, not the quota.

                BTW I'm a middle aged white guy, so this is not an argument from self interest.
                I think there's a lot truth in this. But where I work, in my division all of my seniors are (very well qualified) females who do a fantastic job. However, other parts of the organisation have very few female employees in general, and even fewer females in senior roles. And you can guess how the organisation sorts out the averages. As a consequence, I'm leaving a place that I've given 15 years to. It's a tricky one.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                  My feeling is that imposing quotas of any type is a flawed concept, I really don't care whether any administrating body is comprised of all women, all men or a mix of both, what is far more important is that the best able/qualified people are chosen regardless of gender.
                  Totally agree Yelta. The primary consideration should be whether someone is best qualified and has the best experience/track record for the job. Consideration also needs to be given to as whether the candidate has the personality required to blend into a team or organisation and I believe any employer has the right to decide this. I don't agree with any prejudice based on race, sex, age etc. but also don't agree with imposed quotas, especially in government when a person's gender puts them in front of a better candidate. Key portfolios like defence need the absolute best candidate filling the job, not a politically motivated PC appointment. Equal opportunity doesn't exist in a quota system when the best candidates are excluded based on the quota definitions. This is also discrimination.

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                  • #24
                    Quotas are not discriminatory unless the organisation is correcting past discrimination, which is all too frequently the case.

                    For a case study of what happens when you don't apply quotas, look no further than the liberal / national parties. It is very difficult to believe there wasn't a smarter woman available in Dutton's electorate.

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                    • #25
                      I suspect Rex Harrison got it right.

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                      • #26
                        Alan Jay Lerner (Lerner & Loewe).

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                          Quotas are not discriminatory unless the organisation is correcting past discrimination, which is all too frequently the case.
                          By definition quotas are discriminatory.


                          Java "No time for spin" phile
                          Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                          • #28
                            That's simply not true. Look up the definition of discrimination.

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                            • #29
                              Quotas and affirmative action are built on the misguided belief that you can fix discrimination with discrimination.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                                That's simply not true. Look up the definition of discrimination.
                                Per Merriam-Webster:

                                Definition of discrimination

                                1a : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment racial discrimination
                                b : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually


                                Definition of quota

                                1 : a proportional part or share especially : the share or proportion assigned to each in a division or to each member of a body
                                2 : the number or amount constituting a proportional share
                                3 : a fixed number or percentage of minority group members or women needed to meet the requirements of affirmative action


                                Java "You were saying?" phile
                                Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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