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Greenpeace Founder: ‘Climate Change Crisis’ Is a ‘Completely Made-Up Issue’

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  • #16
    Anyway ...
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    • #17
      Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
      As you have the right to do but let's take each one by one:

      Yes, but our politicians refuse to act because of the lack of vision beyond the next election. When action is proposed, the cry is often 'think of the jobs'. Unfortunately that needs to become 'think of the planet' and jobs and environment aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
      One of the arguments thrown up against emission control is that we are small fish in a big pond and our small emission reduction contribution would be more than offset by the bigger polluters. I say this is like saying I'm going to drop this bit of paper on the ground as there is already lots of rubbish around and one less piece isn't going to make any difference. Well it does make a difference: it's about the power of one, and if everyone makes the effort to clean up their own crap, the collective effort will make a big difference.
      G'day flynnaus

      ... edited by me to one point worth much further consideration and debate.

      There is a Norwegian proverb I grew up with. English translation (via family) "Every bit helps said the mouse as he pissed in the ocean". Yep, even small changes matter.

      The other reasons I bring up Norway:-

      1) Thanks to Thatcher selling off the English farm, Norway purchased BP North Sea in the early 80's (I think - or late '70's). A few days ago I read they have the world's biggest sovereign wealth fund (over $US1.1 trillion). About 2 years ago they had over $US200k surplus per person (including newborns).
      2) They have had minority governments for decades. On a 1970 trip over there my dad was stunned to hear that they had 31 political parties and needed 19 of them to form a government. He attended their parliamentary gallery "to see it gridlocked" in his own words. Much to his surprise party leader after party leader stood up in favour of the 4 bills they passed that day, often with comments like "We would do it a bit differently, however for the good of the country....".
      3) They have a really high rate of tax which they spend on infrastructure. How much would all weather bridges between the hundreds of Lofoten islands in the Arctic circle cost? I reckon more than the current Oz deficit. Of course those bridges mean that the Lofoten's are not cut off for the 4 months of severe winter each year.
      4) They have a good social welfare net.
      5) They also have all of the advantages of the EU without being controlled by idiotic bureaucrats in Brussels. Any Oz / Norwegian dual passport holder can get someone into virtually any country of the world (to reside permanently & work without complications in most of them).
      6) Their "Statoil" (which is what it sounds like - state owned North Sea oil originally) ensures their oil dollars stay in their country. Ironically, they are spending up on renewables now to the point they have changed their name to Equinor ASA to reflect their new operational outlook.
      7) Last month (March 2019) Norway registered more new Electric vehicles than ICU (petrol / diesel) ones.

      Not bad for a country with a population about the same as Sydney.

      So my question is "How is Oz (and the US for that matter) doing it so wrong on so many levels?"

      Our government seems to be a choice between Tweedledumber and Tweedledumberer. When was the last time we heard an Oz pollie compromise with "for the good of the country"?
      Our "action" on climate change, water management and environmental issues is appalling.
      Our infrastructure is falling down around our ears, yet the pollies are giving tax cuts to the big end of town - not that too many of them are paying a lot of tax anyway.
      We in Oz receive a pittance for our mineral wealth.
      Our productivity and our corporate profits are way up whilst wages are flat.
      Our inequality has been rising since the '80's (no surprise there).

      FWIW, I hope this 11th May election results in minority government in both houses so that a possible change from the current adversarial political system can start to occur.

      TampIt

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      • #18
        When deadly bacteria invade a host, they multiply until they kill the host - and themselves. They do it because they don't have the intelligence not to. What's our excuse?

        Ps with the possible exception of Norway.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by TampIt View Post

          FWIW, I hope this 11th May election results in minority government in both houses so that a possible change from the current adversarial political system can start to occur.

          TampIt
          I agree if it does bring about more cooperative governance. However, with the disenchantment towards the najor parties, I would dread to see some of the more extreme parties gaining balance of power and abusing that power to suit their own ideology rather than the interests of all.
          However, your father's observation of Norwegian political cooperation is heartening, as is New Zealand where the minority Adern Labour government formed a successful coalition with the nationalist NZ First party along with the guarantee of support from the Greens.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
            I agree if it does bring about more cooperative governance. However, with the disenchantment towards the najor parties, I would dread to see some of the more extreme parties gaining balance of power and abusing that power to suit their own ideology rather than the interests of all.
            However, your father's observation of Norwegian political cooperation is heartening, as is New Zealand where the minority Adern Labour government formed a successful coalition with the nationalist NZ First party along with the guarantee of support from the Greens.
            Perhaps an inappropriate metaphor, given the current topic, but maybe the tide is turning.

            Ps cause for optimism?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by OCD View Post
              cause for optimism?
              Fingers crossed that voters vote wisely and don't waste it on informal or donkey votes. The fact that there is a record number of people registered to vote at this election gives some hope.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                ...The biggest problem we face is over population along with the constant push for procreation and preservation of human life, no matter how feeble, no one really seems to want to address it, scientists may come up with an answer, tree huggers and religious zealots most certainly won't...
                It seems that when a country becomes affluent the population growth slows, or even does a U turn. I can only speculate that when people are elevated beyond subsistence they find better things to do with their time. The solution is as obvious as it is unpalatable.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
                  The fact that there is a record number of people registered to vote at this election gives some hope.
                  According to the Electoral Commission, most of the additions making up the record rate of enrolment were young people. No surprise there, given there would be more of them not enrolled in the first place; rather, the fact that they have now enrolled, presumably with some intent.

                  Regarding minority governments, they depend very much on the makeup of the independents or minor parties who wield disproportionate power in those situations. In 2010-2013 the then minority government was highly successful as measured by legislation passed* so a minority is far from an ungovernable position. The same has happened at State level. However, a single-issue independent with a crucial vote could wreak havoc either owing to the particular bee in their bonnet or simply because they are otherwise disengaged or uninformed about other issues.

                  * any other yardstick is up to you.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
                    I agree if it does bring about more cooperative governance. However, with the disenchantment towards the najor parties, I would dread to see some of the more extreme parties gaining balance of power and abusing that power to suit their own ideology rather than the interests of all.
                    However, your father's observation of Norwegian political cooperation is heartening, as is New Zealand where the minority Adern Labour government formed a successful coalition with the nationalist NZ First party along with the guarantee of support from the Greens.
                    G'day flynnaus.

                    Firstly, I would be surprised if Norway is perfect - far from it - it is just plainly a far better political / economic environmental approach than the three major "non Athenian" democracies in the "developed world" each with just a handful of adversarial major parties. I say "non Athenian" democracies as we, the UK and the US really have the Roman republican model - and it didn't end well when a guy named Julius took that over by inertia and force.

                    Also, I was not suggesting a minority government is the only way and without risks. Consider Italy today - a prime case of "multi party gridlock". There must be (many?) other factors involved. I would also add with so many parties needed to form a government (as in the case of Norway) I would suspect most of the truly extreme parties would not have much say in forming draconian laws. We in Oz and those in the US are pretty good at draconian laws anyway - ever heard of section 54 in Qld?

                    The sheer number of young people who did not bother to enrol over the previous two elections now appear to have put a bomb under themselves - at last, and for all of Oz's betterment. It will be interesting to see what they do "on the day". I live in hope.


                    Enjoy your cuppa - at least the idiots in Canberra cannot affect the flavour of that (directly).


                    TampIt

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                      G'day flynnaus.

                      Firstly, I would be surprised if Norway is perfect - far from it
                      No, but 'perfect' is an arbitrary and undesirable quality. As you said, it's still better than what is happening in Australia.

                      we, the UK and the US really have the Roman republican model - and it didn't end well when a guy named Julius took that over by inertia and force.
                      Well we know that came to a sticky end. And Australia almost literally followed that example, given the knifing that 4 out of 5 of our last PMs suffered. After the caning Labor was given in 2013 following Rudd-Gillard-Rudd, it would have to be an exceptional act of stupidity to repeat that, but that's pretty much what has happened with Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison

                      Also, I was not suggesting a minority government is the only way and without risks. Consider Italy today - a prime case of "multi party gridlock".
                      Yes, I had Italy in mind as a bad example of a multi-party government but we don't hear that much about it anymore now that Berlusconi is out of the picture. Oddly Giuseppe Conti was installed as PM without actually being an electoral candidate

                      ever heard of section 54 in Qld?
                      No, not by that name

                      It will be interesting to see what they do "on the day". I live in hope.
                      Yes, quite. Our youth seem to feel that the government/s should be doing more about climate change as they are concerned about the state of the world they (and Keith Richards ) will inherit (along with the national debt they will be saddled with). But more recently, it is farmers who feel let down by their political representatives, especially those trying to farm along the Murray-Darling Basin; they know it isn't just drought causing the problem.

                      Enjoy your cuppa - at least the idiots in Canberra cannot affect the flavour of that (directly).
                      Well not the flavour but perhaps the enjoyment. I have to make sure I swallow before reading the latest escapade for fear of spray painting my computer screen.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                        ...ever heard of section 54 in Qld?..
                        Hi Tamplt,
                        A quick google of "section 54 in Queensland" bought up the usual avalanche of irrelevant information. A quick explanation (as if I was a 5 year old or an ex truckie) would be appreciated.

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                        • #27
                          I kind of wonder if the problem in Australia is that we have two longstanding and ideologically entrenched and inflexible parties with several others with either no real ideological coherence, principles or discernible vision.
                          I have always felt that what we need is a "Common-Sense Party" that just cherry-picks the most rational and realistic policy from whats available and disregards the historical impediments and hangovers from previous decades that aren't a good match with where we are now and in the forseeable future.
                          There are policy aspects of both major parties that make realistic sense to me but others that just don't and no one party that I really want to vote for. I think there must be a lot like me out there.

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                          • #28
                            Indeed Rocky but how do we fix it?

                            Mal.

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                            • #29
                              I'm not sure it's doable anymore. Politics has ebbed to such a low place that I think you'd be lucky to scrape together enough smart (not intelligent but smart) honest people to form a cabinet.
                              You'd need a proportion of candidates with some previous experience who hadn't been ruined by the system. I saw young Wyatt Roy on ABC the other night and he looked half decent. Maybe there are enough one-termers out there to form the backbone of a party. You'd need to vet them carefully to eliminate all the half-wits that traditionally gravitate to minor parties. Some professional quals other than Law and some successful Tradies would be good for the mix. A basic requirement would be that your absolute first loyalty be to the Nation and ALL it's people, not a religion, a party, a minority group or any particular 'cause'.
                              PC warriors would be immediately selected out.

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                              • #30
                                Or, we could go the American route and elect our own home-grown, poor-man's Donald Trump, to wit, Clive Palmer. Think of the employment and business opportunities that would flow from building a wall across the top of Australia to keep the Chinese out.

                                Ps keep our nuclear future alive. Vote Clive.

                                Ps 2 we live in interesting times.

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