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  • #31
    Sorry guys. The planet has survived 7 billion years of calamities and catastrophes and will survive beyond your 2030 alarm.

    I don't believe a word of it.

    We are evolved humans on this planet. Every time we have a drink of water, eat a fruit, roast meat on the barbecue and everything else we do naturally is going to impact the environment.

    It is the nature of existence.

    The alternative is go back to the caves. Don't breed. Don't evolve. No thanks,

    I'm not saying be irresponsible and abuse our environment. Far from it.

    But I do not find the need to flaggelate myself in guilt as is the want of so many others. Including academics who should know better. I do not conveniently use climate change as the latest trendy lefty cause to hitch my wagon....much like opposition to US military bases was the trendy magnet that attracted them with their doomsday chants back in the 1960s and 1970s.

    Yes, the left always has to find a counter- culture issue with alarmist prognostication to berate us with, to assuage their guilt.

    If I am going to be influenced in my views, it certainly aint by a teenage girl who wags school, by Richard Di Natale and others of the Looney left.

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    • #32
      Speleomike, you have used the argument of a climate change activist to justify climate change as the cause of the bushfires.

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      • #33
        The bookstore in the fire-ravaged village of Cobargo, New South Wales, has a new sign outside: 'Post-Apocalyptic Fiction has been moved to Current Affairs.'

        https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/o...te-change.html

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        • #34
          For those who are worried about friends or loved ones in NSW - or in the midst of it and trying to locate where and how many fires are around them, this amalgamated map uses two sets of data from NSW RFS and almost live from Digital Earth - https://bit.ly/2sBKD9z - (link goes to an ArcGis map), has proven pretty accurate for a few people so far on the south coast for fires and road closures

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          • #35
            A lotta people here are totally full of s!@#. Living in the bush/fire prone areas Yelta? Ya mug. My 88 year old Mum lives 75 metres from the ocean at Batemans Bay and she is in a fire risk zone at the moment, fearing for her LIFE.
            You really are a piece of work sometimes. My father is in permanent care in a home at Batemens Bay... didn't have a lot of choice about where he lives and can't be evacuated. My eldest sister lives two streets back from the
            ocean .... at Batemans Bay. Since when are paved streets, urban gardens and ocean proximity a poor choice for living in respect of fires?

            My other sister lives on a few acres out of Wagga and can't leave the 3000 head of sheep and cattle to fend for themselves. According to the (non) logic expressed in this thread she shouldn't even be be there so who TF is going to grow your food when every farmer
            in Australia lives in a fire risk zone?

            I survived the Black Saturday fires.... just. Had 300' flames over my head and photos to prove it. My vineyard was destroyed, shed and fencing vaprorised. Maybe I shouldn't have been there making wine
            for all you city tossers and oh so brave keyboard warriors.

            And don't get me started on the drivel posted by Robusto.... that argument, along with others here, is nothing but a vehicle to express political views like a dumb blunt instrument. Migrate to Trump land and join
            the oh so brave people who delight in attacking children who are old enough to have a world view.

            About the only thing here that makes any sense are comments about local council regulations.... and my council is run by right wing dumbasses.

            For the past two weeks I have lived in fear for the survival of my family while I witness others fear for theirs .... and for all the farmers, workers, holiday destination businesses who are suffering at the moment well.......I hope none of them are coffee snobs.

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            • #36
              An American has done the research for us by getting our old newspaper reports to show we have selective memories. See:
              https://youtu.be/jMrV9qnmeeg
              Eighty Years of Climate Change by Tony Heller.

              The Australian today also refers to a thesis by Christine Finlay a Queensland based fire researcher who has concluded " there was a marked increase in the size and frequency of fires after 1919. This was when bushfire reduction operations increasingly moved away from traditional indigenous practices such as low intensity cool burning. "

              The current bush fire problems pre-exist climate change theory.

              Have a look at Captain Cook's Journal if you want to trace back to 1770, it is available online.
              http://southseas.nla.gov.au/journals/cook/17700501.html
              Last edited by WarrenK; 4 January 2020, 06:29 PM. Reason: Added reference

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              • #37
                Pretty sure I have expressed views here, like them or loathe them, without directing any personal abuse at fellow coffeesnob posters whose views are contrary to mine, or mine to theirs.

                But some can't help themselves and have to turn this debate and maybe every other contentious one, into a personal slanging match with name calling.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by robusto View Post
                  Pretty sure I have expressed views here, like them or loathe them, without directing any personal abuse at fellow coffeesnob posters whose views are contrary to mine, or mine to theirs.

                  But some can't help themselves and have to turn this debate and maybe every other contentious one, into a personal slanging match with name calling.
                  If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, you're obviously not grasping the gravity of the situation.

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                  • #39
                    Chokki, that link I posted is very effective for Batemens Bay - https://bit.ly/2sBKD9z - and shows real time hotspots while you can also get down to street level with it. Understand Batemens is cut off at the moment and your relatives may be without power, but you may be able to help them from afar. I have friends and a brother who have lost power at Husky and Vincentia, also saw Manyana has had none for 24 hrs. I would imagine the 'take cover' SMS from RFS has probably alarmed your mother no end. Good luck and best wishes for your family.

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                    • #40
                      Best thing to do if you're not in it is to pull your sleeves up and assist, however you are able to. There's already sufficient hot air to keep us all warm.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 338 View Post
                        For those who are worried about friends or loved ones in NSW - or in the midst of it and trying to locate where and how many fires are around them, this amalgamated map uses two sets of data from NSW RFS and almost live from Digital Earth - https://bit.ly/2sBKD9z - (link goes to an ArcGis map), has proven pretty accurate for a few people so far on the south coast for fires and road closures
                        That's a really good resource 338.


                        Makes me wonder how much double handling there is in each state providing their own data, stopping at the border (like the fires know the difference!)

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                        • #42
                          ...and...

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                          Seems to me that a national emergency site would make more sense but that would require our states to work together like we were one country.

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                          • #43
                            For a national overview with zoom to local level and some interesting layers to play with: https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au/


                            Java "Maps!" phile
                            Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                            • #44
                              Hi all

                              Many of those sites are using the same underlying data from orginal sources. Example the site Andy posted https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au is using Geoscience Aust data (https://hotspots.dea.ga.gov.au/) from satellite imagery combined with a base map from Google Maps where as https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/v...3499818a2d60df uses the hotspots data with RFS data with base map from ESRI which got it from Geoscience Aust originally under license. The RFS Fires Near Me is from their own data which has details and situation data on each fire.

                              Each site though uses the underlying data feed and may have a different "look and feel" with different icons for the data points so it might appear as if there are dozens of independent sites and unique data. In reality there are just a few original data sources and the many sites are what are called "mashups".

                              For the computer nerds the hotspots data is available as json data and the RFS data is an XML feed. So you can even write your own site to use that data with Open Street Maps as a base layer.

                              Mike

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                              • #45
                                That's a good site Javaphile, I like the overlays too. Well done WA!

                                Sure, I get that the data is out there Speleomike, my thoughts were more selfish considering that the first message we received from the alerts app was "you're stuffed" and the fire had already been burning for a few hours at that time. To get wind speed and direction I needed to find separate resources on multiple websites then have multiple tabs open to toggle and refresh. The phone app continued to tell us 3 or 4 times a day for the following week that the fire was out, that becomes a "boy who cried wolf" pretty fast for many people.

                                "Fire ready" was the original warning Victorian app, it was excellent and accurate. I could watch a fire truck drive past the Snobbery and know where it was going, the app was very live. It was replaced by "Vic Emergency" which is okay but clumsy to navigate and nowhere near as good.

                                Seems to me that if all the states pooled their current IT spend and resources we could have a National system that worked far better than any single component.

                                On a brighter note, it was nice to wake to the sound of rain on the roof this morning and see south Australia and western Victoria getting a shower, it's not much but hopefully it continues moving east to the High Country and Gippsland and into Southern NSW to where it's needed.

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