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How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

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  • #16
    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

    Very interesting reading tasadam! Its great following these sorts of projects through on CS!

    Ive got a stack of data on filter baskets (basket internal diameters only), so if you still want to pursue that avenue there are several machines I could direct you to which share very similar internal diameters to the 800. Email me if youre interested and Ill send you the details.

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    • #17
      Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

      I
      Originally posted by vicroamer link=1171219646/15#26 date=1177024412
      Hi Tasadam
      Planning on opening up the little pressure hole on my cafe roma basket, probably just grind it bigger, enough to depressurise but still keep enough strength not to blow out. But the inner filter looks to be a thinner gauge and I am a bit concerned it will bow under the full pressure until it rests against the outer basket floor. Since you have been modding yours what are your thoughts.
      My thought is to get it spot welded right round - see my pics. Or better, get a basket that fits properly without the dreaded crema enhancer.
      I havent posted a photo of my welded basket but you can see from the pics what would have been needed.

      If the metal is too thin, there is a risk that the welder will blow holes in the metal. So take advice from your sheet metal worker here - or go with my philosophy - HAVE A GO! If it doesnt work, you can always buy another... But remember to ask him/her how much first - it may be cheaper to get a new basket...

      It is going to be hard to grind an opening bigger and do a tidy job if you dont take it to the edge, and by taking it to the edge you have the problem of blowing out the filter as I did on my 1st attempt (before welding). My photo of the red dotted line is an optomists view, but not practical to achieve without some specialist cutting gear and a steady hand.

      You then have the channeling issue - where the coffee (water) wants to take the easiest path through the basket, so if it can escape down the sides - the gap between the base of the filter and the outer, it will. This is called channeling, as has been discussed earlier, and you get watery coffee as the shot has not been fused through the entire grind but only down the sides or whatever path the water took.
      So to avoid this completely, make sure you get the basket spot welded right round.
      If I get enough interest I will get my single shot basket done and take some action shots...

      Good luck and let us all know how you get on... Photos too??

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      • #18
        Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

        My easiest way around it would be to buy and use the $12.00 Krupps basket, I think I will just do that, fit a new group seal at the same time, if i have sealing problems I will have a go at depressurising the original filter, let you know what happens.

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        • #19
          Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

          Originally posted by vicroamer link=1168768543/15#17 date=1177026148
          My easiest way around it would be to buy and use the $12.00 Krupps basket, I think I will just do that, fit a new group seal at the same time, if i have sealing problems I will have a go at depressurising the original filter, let you know what happens.
          Yep Krups baskets are the way to go. Brought 2 doubles a while ago and havent looked back.

          Advantages of Krups baskets over Breville PF (even with the hole drilled out to 3mm).
          • non presurised
          • easier to empty (one hit on the knock box not 3 or 4 as I had with Brevilles PF)
          • one hit to empty = less splater


          Disadvantages
          • smaller (dosent hold as much coffee, the breville double is much deeper)
          • harder to get creama (even if fake it looks good)


          I brought the 800ES before finding coffeesnobs, dont think in hindsight that I would of done differently. About a month later I got my EM0480 grinder and 2 weeks ago a Cascade Popper and a starter pack of beans. Until you roast your own beans or find a supply that you know is fresh you dont really know what good coffee is

          I am still trying to get my grinder dialed in, my next purchase will be a Pullman tamper but for now I have a 52mm one I found on ebay (52mm is too big), and using sand paper have resized to fit my basket.

          Lots of people will tell you that you need enough coffee in the basket to get an impression of the shower screen, to do this with the 800ES you need to fill the basket with enough coffee such that after tamping the level is just below the top (within about 1/2 a mm).

          The result of my coffee journey so far is my wifes comment that my coffee is the best she has ever tasted.

          Cheers
          Greg

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          • #20
            Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

            Originally posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
            Until you roast your own beans or find a supply that you know is fresh you dont really know what good coffee is
            AMEN to that! I now have my crazy popper and havent ever made a coffee so smooth at home before!

            Originally posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
            Lots of people will tell you that you need enough coffee in the basket to get an impression of the shower screen.
            Im not sure about that on this machine. I like it strong so only use the double basket that I modified. I normally give it 2 or 3 clicks on the rocky, a light press with the plastic tamp to smooth it off, then fill the basket with more clicks then tamp down hard, twist to polish and away I go. But though I dont know whether it always touches the basket, the results are probably as good as I can hope for from this machine so Ill stick with that for now. Uses a lot of coffee, though. I still need to get myself a proper tamp, which will one day happen.

            Originally posted by chips60 link=1168768543/15#18 date=1177714146
            The result of my coffee journey so far is my wifes comment that my coffee is the best she has ever tasted.
            Nice one, Greg... Doesnt that make the journey worthwhile!!

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            • #21
              Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

              Trouble is she will never make me another coffee.

              Making and enjoying good coffee is what its all about so cant complain. I have even brought a cheap machine for my office at work. $50 Eurolab machine from deals direct. Non presurised filter basket 51mm (dosnt fit the breville). Doesnt do too bad a job as long as you preheat the group handle. Am looking forward to trying some fresh coffee in it when I get back to work on monday.

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              • #22
                Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                Im glad she likes your coffee.
                Its a good feeling when you get compliments like that.

                Dont expect that DD machine to last too long.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                  Hi folks
                  My first post! I recently purchased a Cafe Roma (based on good reviews with Choice) and then a Sunbeam 0480 grinder. After a fair bit of experimenting over the last few weeks, I am loving the coffee that it makes, it is nicer than most of the local cafe brews that I am used to (maybe just very good coffee? McIvers Royal Superior Dark is my favourite) which makes me wonder how good it could be with the modifications suggested here (eg. Krupps basket). Can I ask - what is wrong with the standard Breville basket? I understand the dual wall crema enhance and that it makes fake crema, but how does it detract from the flavour? I guess I am also unclear about why real crema is better than fake crema?

                  The only problem I am having is the occasional blocked basket (due to the tiny single hole in the lower basket blocking). I use my grinder set at 15 (the courser end of the espresso settings, which range from 12 to 16). I tried it on 16 today to avoid blockages, but the flavour suffered. The blockages are usually fixed by an overnight soak in vinegar, so I was thinking about just getting a couple of extra baskets.

                  Another question while I am at it - I was surprised to read here that people tamp down very hard - I thought it was best only done with moderate pressure - does this depend on which basket is being used? Should I tamp hard with the standard breville basket?

                  Sorry if this info is already posted somewhere - and happy to be pointed in the right direction if so.
                  Cheers and thanks in anticipation of your help,
                  DIG

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                    DIG,

                    Hi and welcome to CoffeeSnobs....

                    Rather than typing it all again..... have a read of

                    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1180165483#10

                    Crema enhancing baskets - when they pass the tiny stream of coffee through the pinhole - they mix it with air to get the crema..... and air is the enemy of the oils in the coffee (and the real crema).

                    No dont tamp hard with one of these baskets.... and dont grind too fine either. The pressure is generated by the pinhole.... so if you grind fine and tamp hard (like you do with a "proper" basket....) it will just block up on you.

                    The taste difference with real baskets and freshly roasted coffee (no point in using that with crema enhancing baskets by the way) you will not believe..... but you will then need a good grinder (the Sunbeam will be fine) and technique.

                    Enjoy your journey into great coffee.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                      Its odd but that Ive seen a few baskets moded like the OP original without the base blowing out like that - Ive done one myself for a friend with an angle grinder.

                      I think the trick is to not be too neat about removing the metal near the edge of the base and to fold any edges back in (and maybe hammer them flush with an inner mandrel).

                      Its a real shame that the Krups basket is smaller than the Breville/Sunbeam double as that is only about the size of a 58mm single.

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                      • #26
                        Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                        Thanks for the explanation - I was just starting to feel like I knew what I was doing with my setup, until finding this site.... It looks like either a Krups non-pressurised basket, OR, modify the pressurised basket. A couple of questions if I may:

                        1. I saw a couple of posts that suggest the Krups basket isnt a perfect fit in the breville machine (a bit too loose and it isnt as deep) - is this a significant problem? Also I have noticed several posts asking where these can be purchased, and the answer is look it up in the yellow pages. I tried this but cant find anywhere that says they provide Krups baskets. Can anyone give more direct answer (eg. a website or phone number?).

                        2. It seems to me that the idea of just drilling out the small hole a little (eg. 2 or 3mm) as suggested in some of the earlier posts should solve all the problems, without the need to remove the entire lower part of the basket? The basket will still fit, and the coffee will now be the cause of any pressure because the hole is too big to cause significant pressure itself - ie. it will effectively work like a non-pressurised basket?. I saw a couple of posts where this was suggested or tried, but didnt get much of an idea about how well it works (sorry if I missed this). Is there any reason why drilling a small hole would be inferior to getting the Krups non-pressurised basket for the Breville machine?

                        Thanks again

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                        • #27
                          Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                          This was my orignal intent when I modified one but I found that he gap between the false, pressed in base and the pressurising base is very small so there is still likely to be some pressurising effect with an enlarged center hole.

                          It is likely to be better than original but I dont think it would be as good as one where more of the inner base was exposed.

                          Plus it is quite difficult to remove just the center portion of the lower base as the gap is so small that it would be easy to drill/grind through the upper base as well.

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                          • #28
                            Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                            yes, I was thinking a dremel with a fine grinding bit and a very steady hand would be required, but if the two layers are very close you may be right - there may still be too much pressure, although I would imagine it only needs to be less than that provided by the coffee for it to not be a problem - ie. as long as the coffee itself provides the pressure bottleneck, it should be OK - Does this sound right?

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                            • #29
                              Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                              Id give it a go - it wouldnt hurt as you could always go back and open up more if you didnt find much difference

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                              • #30
                                Re: How to modify Breville 800ES filter... NOT!

                                Actually,

                                It isnt just the coffee which provides resistance to water flow, the cumulative cross-sectional area of the holes in the bottom of the basket do their bit too. If you have a look at a single (normal) basket, you will notice that it has significantly fewer holes than the double so as to allow for similar shot pour times with only half the amount of coffee,

                                Mal.

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