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Should I buy an Ikon?

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  • #31
    Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

    and still grind finer. If you still arent getting the 60 in 30 "ballpark" you arent quite there yet. I would suspect that the shot runs pretty watery early into the pour also.

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    • #32
      Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

      Could also be related to the dose too Judy......

      You need to make sure youre putting enough coffee in the basket so that after tamping, when you lock the PF into place and then remove it, you can see the slightest impression of the shower-screen or centre screw in the top of the puck. Once you can consistently dose the basket and tamp to achieve this, you will be 90% of the way there.

      Mal.

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      • #33
        Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

        Also tamping pressure, Judy. Im not sure if anyones shown you how to tamp properly but, until I starting watching YouTube videos and reading information from here, I was almost only just resting the tamper in the basket which led to water running through the grinds really quickly and no crema whatsoever.

        If youre like me, with a girly lack of muscles arm, I tamp so Im leaning into the basket with a straight forearm so that Im putting quite a bit of pressure on the grinds (I think there is a weight you can use somewhere) and then back off and polish the puck. You will also find that, by doing this, you fit a whole lot more into the basket.

        Hope this helps...

        Cheers
        Di

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        • #34
          Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

          Thanks mall

          Grinding it finer has helped. Perhaps I should try even finer. The puck is very wet unless I steam milk after making the coffee, when it becomes dryer. So I cant really see if theres an impression of the shower screen or screw in the puck. Also, if I fill the basket right up the coffee is way too strong for me. Maybe I should buy a single Krups basket and fill it right to the top.

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          • #35
            Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

            Thanks also Di

            I must have posted at the same time you did as I didnt see your post before. I have been trying to tamp hard, but I know I need a better tamper. I bought a metal one from a kitchen shop, but its a little too small. I imagine this is a bad thing. I went to a specialist coffee place first and tried a 51mm tamper, but it was a little too tight. The one I have is probably 50mm, so I need something in between, or else maybe I should get the Breville unpressurized baskets as someone said they fit a 52mm tamper.

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            • #36
              Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

              Judy,

              As the Ikon doesnt have a 3 way valve so if there is "head room" between the puck and the showerscreen this will remain full of water = mushy puck.

              How are you drinking your coffee?..... if a milk based drink or a long black.... once you get the 60ml in 25 seconds correctly.... just cut the shot short so you extract less espresso..... if drinking espresso that wont work of course!

              A single basket is much harder to extract a good shot..... not impossible - but definitely harder! Most of us dont use them for that reason.... preferring to tip half down the sink..... keeping half in the fridge for iced coffees.... or just having a double ourselves

              Keep on practising.... you will get there and enjoy the great coffee you are producing!

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              • #37
                Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                Originally posted by Judy52 link=1222932957/20#34 date=1231031722

                or else maybe I should get the Breville unpressurized baskets as someone said they fit a 52mm tamper.
                The Breville 1/2 and 2/4 baskets have the level marks and numbers stamped inwards and the whole basket tapers inwards as well. Therefore when you have a fitted tamper (like one of ours- a Pullman) they wont be a good fit as a gap must be left to clear these ridges and also to allow for the tamper to enter far enough.....

                They arent a good choice unfortunately.

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                • #38
                  Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                  Thanks Java

                  OK. So I wont waste my money on Breville baskets. But where can I get a 50.5mm tamper without having one custom-made?

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                  • #39
                    Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                    Judy,

                    Commercially made tampers are generally only nominally whole mm sizes (51, 52, 58 etc)...... but they arent manufactured all that accurately! So if you shop around you might find a 51mm which is 0.5mm smaller.....

                    Generally most people either "soldier on" with a poor fitting tamper or have one custom made...... There isnt a huge range of "off the shelf" tampers other than for the 58mm (commercial sized) baskets.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                      Originally posted by Judy52 link=1222932957/20#33 date=1231031183
                      Grinding it finer has helped. Perhaps I should try even finer. The puck is very wet unless I steam milk after making the coffee, when it becomes dryer. So I cant really see if theres an impression of the shower screen or screw in the puck. Also, if I fill the basket right up the coffee is way too strong for me. Maybe I should buy a single Krups basket and fill it right to the top.
                      Ahhh sorry (my fault :-[),

                      When checking the top of the puck for a shower(screw) impression, I meant for you to try this without actually pulling a shot; basically, locking the PF in all the way and then removing it to see if there is the slightest sign of an impression in the top of the puck. If the impression is well and truly marked on the top of the puck, you probably have too much coffee in the basket. No sign of any impression at all? Then, too little coffee in the basket. You are looking for a sign that the shower-screen or centre-screw is just barely touching the top of the puck. This way, when the brew water first enters the basket, the coffee puck will swell up as it absorbs some of the water while maintaining cohesiveness so that a good seal is maintained between the sides of the basket and the coffee. Channelling due to fracturing of the puck is also considerably reduced if the puck isnt being excessively disturbed when locking in the PF.

                      Id stick with using the Double Basket for the time being, as JB has mentioned above.... It is a lot easier to learn on and even if a full 60ml of coffee is too much for you in a single cup, try collecting half of the shot in another cup or glass and keep it in the fridge for later use in an iced coffee, etc. You could also try pulling the shot a little shorter as JB has also mentioned; a kind of Ristretto.

                      One thing you cant do though, is put too little coffee in the basket.... Each basket is designed to work properly only when it contains the correct amount of ground coffee, hence my explanation above of looking for the impression on top of a dry puck to work out what the "ideal" dose for your machine should be. Once you become more confident using your machinery and can regularly churn out great coffee using the Double, you could then try experimenting with the Single Basket, using the same method to identify the "ideal" dose and then see how you go.

                      Since you are still using the pressurised baskets that came with your machine, it isnt necessary to use a lot of force when tamping the coffee down. So long as there are no air voids in the puck and it is completely cohesive, that is all you really need to worry about as the resistance to the Brew Water flow is created mainly by the pin-hole on the underside of the basket and to a much lesser degree by the coffee puck itself. You still need to make sure that you are using the correct quantity of coffee, firmly tamped into the basket though otherwise your coffee will be unevenly extracted. If you do eventually go the route of standard unpressurised baskets, then this will require a much firmer tamp and one that is applied with as close as possible, the same force each and every time. Pressurised baskets are much easier to use in this respect.

                      Anyway, hope some of the above is helpful. Have fun and Happy Brewing....

                      Mal.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                        Thanks for that Mal

                        I am actually using an unpressurized Krups basket. But Im not filling it enough - I get annoyed by the mess if I fill it too much - I guess Ill have to get over that. Also, putting half in the fridge is a good idea.

                        With the finer grind I can see it coming out much thicker and more slowly and theres more crema - so the grind was probably the main problem.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                          Hi,

                          I had a EM0430 grinder that I was using with my new 800ES and it eventually died. I got an EM0480 grinder now that works really well but I still have to get the unpressurised baskets. I feel that both of these items get a bit of an unfair hiding on snobs.

                          The 800ES seems to crank out a good brew and the grinder is certainly a good piece of kit for the money. I guess not all of us have a magical budget!! My budget was stretched to get these two items (Thanks to Macca!!) and I am stoked with both. He even included a popper and some green beans for me to have a go with.

                          Top bloke, great price, couldnt be happier. If anyone is in Mona Vale and they need a hotel, look him up for me and give him the business!!

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                          • #43
                            Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                            Originally posted by matty73350 link=1222932957/40#41 date=1231239633
                            I had a EM0430 grinder that I was using with my new 800ES and it eventually died.  I got an EM0480 grinder now that works really well but I still have to get the unpressurised baskets.  I feel that both of these items get a bit of an unfair hiding on snobs.
                            I dont think you can say unfair unless you have something to compare them to yourself.

                            I havent used an 800ES so Ill only comment on the EM0480.
                            I have the EM0450 (same grinder but with plastic body and one less switch).
                            I found it to be noisy, messy and prone to clumping the grinds.
                            Compared to my Macap its chalk and cheese.
                            To be fair though, I replaced the 0450 with a Gaggia MDF, which is a lot cheaper than a Macap, but still, the MDF is cleaner and quieter and because of its doser, less prone to clumping.

                            I recommend the 0450/0480 as the absolute minimum for a grinder so I agree with you that for the money its OK.
                            But you get what you pay for and a $200 grinder does not perform any better than a $200 grinder.

                            If you read enough here you find the same theme throughout, a better grinder with the same machine makes better coffee.

                            Enjoy what youve got for now and get the most out of them; you never know what might come your way in the future.



                            Edit: Spelling

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                            • #44
                              Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                              Pulled the trigger on the Ikon for the shop today, should have it here shortly after the weekend $145 for an "as new" factory 2nd / reconditioned unit. Am looking forward to better coffee in the shop than the 14 yr old Melitta can produce (hopefully). Will have to get the non-pressurised baskets from the local service agent (although I am quietly hoping that the baskets for the Melitta may fit as they are 53mm and non pressurised).

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                              • #45
                                Re: Should I buy an Ikon?

                                I think youll find the Ikon to be pretty good for that price. I find mine a lot better than the Cafe Roma which cost about the same 3 years ago (although I didnt get it from a factory oulet).

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