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Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

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  • #16
    Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

    I bought an extra group handle for my Ikon to try this - I would like to know how you got the bottom off as well

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    • #17
      Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

      Originally posted by 25242C28202F2C410 link=1276046081/15#15 date=1276231471
      I bought an extra group handle for my Ikon to try this - I would like to know how you got the bottom off as well
      I got my unpressurised basket yesterday and am going to mod the group handle tomorrow to make it naked.

      I am going to do it with a hole saw, ive read its very easy this way as the metal is quite soft. The other method I have heard of is drilling lots of little holes in a circle and then using a file or dremel type tool to link them up - sounds like a real pita compared to a hole saw - I think a 50mm holesaw is the go...

      if your not familiar with a holesaw it goes on a drill just secure the group handle and drill it - slowly of course... Bunnings have them quite cheap apparently...!

      Looking forward to seeing just how bad my dosing, distributing and tamping is! lol

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      • #18
        Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

        FYI, I got my Krupps filter and it doesnt fit correctly so dont order one of these... The problem is the top edge of the breville has a ridge but the krupps one is flat, makes it a little loose and grinds get thru into the shot...

        In the process of manually modifying my double pressurised filter with a dremel... If that doesnt work I believe the breville ESP4/51 basket is the go so will get onto tracking one down, they can be ordered direct from breville aparently..

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        • #19
          Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

          Originally posted by 674548485149240 link=1276046081/17#17 date=1276334502
          In the process of manually modifying my double pressurised filter with a dremel... If that doesnt work I believe the breville ESP4/51 basket is the go so will get onto tracking one down, they can be ordered direct from breville aparently..
          I had a look at the 4/51 before I did the mods on the standard Ikon double basket, and wasnt impressed. The modified baskets work great.

          Greg

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          • #20
            Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

            My dremel job went Ok, the first bit to get thru the top layer came within a whisker of going thru the second layer as well but didnt just... I expected there to be more of a gap between layers - I had read a couple of MM but mine would be lucky to be 1mm. Have poured 1 shot from it and it all went pretty well so dont think I damaged it beyond use!

            Now to find a cheap holesaw to strip my porta-filter...

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            • #21
              Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

              Hi Guys,
              For those wondering what I used to cut the bottom off - Hot Jave, Fattyboombatty.
              I used a hole saw - its rather easy. Its probably made even easier because I have a drill press, where I could secure the portafilter and then just apply constant slow pressure whilst it cut through the soft probably aluminium.
              Steps:
              Remove the screw from the bottom plate which will release the plastic insert.
              Grab a hole saw that is equal to the inside diameter of the portafilter. Then youll want to turn the portafilter over, secure it to either the bottom plate of your drill press or if youre using a hand held drill - somehow clamp it down. Apply very light pressure, allow the hole saw to do the cutting for you. Stop when youre through the bottom plate.
              Then youll need a file to clean up the edges, and you could even use some sandpaper (400-600grit) rolled up and then inserted into the drill to make yourself a smoother edge.
              If you do have a dremel or similar, still go down the holesaw path and then just use a fine grind tool to take the burrs from the edges.
              There you have it.

              FYI everyone. I got this further email from Breville.
              Thank you for your email we appreciate the feedback and it has been
              passed on to our Research & Development team.
              No the BES400 Ikon has the same filters as the BES200 Bar Vista unit, the Lower pressure ESP4 unit (ESP4 is 3.5 bar pressure vs Roma is 15 bar) are commonly used on a Roma series unit where the performance of a non-presurised filter is desired.
              The ESP4 Filters (part number/s ESP4/51, ESP4/78) are currently
              available for $ 9.78 & $9.15 Each plus $ 10.00 postage and handling and
              can be purchased over the phone with a Visa, MasterCard, Cheque or Money Order. (im not sure if im allowed to post the phone number, so PM me if you want it)

              A little look around and youll find that the ESP4/51 is the single and the 4/78 is the double.

              Ill attach also the Breville spreadsheet of service centres.

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              • #22
                Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                Be aware that the ESP4/51 though described as a single is in fact about the size of the CR double which is probably what you will want.

                I was also thinking of going the holesaw route too - it obviously does a very neat job - what size holesaw did you use ? - yours looks perfect !!

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                • #23
                  Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                  Finally went naked today - no problems. I used a 2"/51mm holesaw - even the carbon steel is OK for the job given the soft aluminium.

                  It can be tricky to find the 51mm in the cheap holesaw sets - so be prepared to hunt around a bit.

                  I dont have a drill press which would be the ideal way to go for this job - if you do it freehand I suggest a cordless drill to minimise torque when the holesaw bites and better speed control.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                    And where are the pics?

                    did you leave a small lip on the pf, or you do make it flush with the sidewall?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                      PF p0rn you want it - you got it  ;D (please excuse the poor production values)

                      the 51mm holesaw leaves the edge flush with the sidewall

                      The filters for those that have been curious are L-R:

                      Breville ESP4/51, Breville std double, Breville std single



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                      • #26
                        Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                        Good Job - looks nice.
                        Yes I would recommend people attempting this to use a drill press, thats the way I went, just gives stability - but you didnt seem to need it with yours, looks neat.

                        Now how have you found the pour through the ESP4/51?
                        I have found it a tough gig to get a decent pour such that the stream forms into the nice single middle stream (if you get what I mean). I know its a good one when it does pour properly, but sometimes its all over the place and having the naked PF can be a bit messy.
                        I also dont have a suitable tamp for the esp4/51 - does your 52mm tamp fit it properly?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                          Shamefully - I havent had a chance to try the naked PF yet to really see how bad my tamping is - hopefully this weekend.

                          A couple of comments about the ESP4/51 filter.

                          1. I dont really like the sloped bottom section - if you dont press down absolutely straight you can slide down the wall so-to-speak and tilt or tear the puck.

                          2. The wall of the basket has level marking indentations. This precludes the use of a fitted tamper and a best fit is all you can do.

                          The Incasa tamper is not exactly precision engineering. It is obviously hand finished and is a bit irregular. I expect that there would be a bit of variation from one to another - so it would be worthwhile if possible to try them out with your individual basket. The tamper is frankly a bit loose - mine measures 51mm at the face (my basket measures @ 52.5mm across the top) - but it beats the crap out of the plastic one you get with the machine, and as I said it is difficult to fit the basket too closely due to the indentations. It also has a slightly convex face and not flat - though some people might prefer this.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                            I have made my naked PFs by simply using a hack-saw and file. I can post some pics of how naked you can go with this method, if anyones is interested.

                            The Krups basket has no level marking indentations.
                            I have had no issues with gettting a seal with the standard Group head Seal.

                            Also, I believe that the Breville/Sunbeam/Krups all have the SAME seal - well at least its visually the same design and size on the EM3800, EM4800, ESP8, and XP4030 machines, for which I have replaced the seals on.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                              Can anyone confirm that apart from the raised lip, the ESP4/51 filter is the exact same dimensions as the Krups basket?

                              My Krups non-pressurised basket Inner Dimensions:
                              -Diameter 51.3mm
                              -Depth 22.5mm
                              -Depth of Taper Start 12.5mm
                              -Diameter of Floor approx 33mm
                              -Width of hole pattern approx 27mm

                              I can fit approx 13-15g in if I overdose.

                              Does anyone have experience with the ESP4/78?
                              eg) Dose amount? Extraction results?

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                              • #30
                                Re: Modifications to Cafe Roma - not all to plan.

                                ESP/51 inner dimensions:

                                diam: 52.5 indent / 53 no ident
                                depth: 21mm
                                taper start: 15mm
                                floor diam: 32mm
                                hole pattern: 25mm

                                avg dose (me) 14g

                                I believe that the difference between the breville and the krups baskets boils down to:

                                krups = smaller diameter so looser in PF
                                krups = bigger holes so more muck in shot
                                krups = unmarked walls so better fit for tamper

                                but might be wrong ...

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