Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Are cheap espresso machines a bad idea?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    The OP's question reminds me of when I starting playing guitar many years ago. My father went out and bought me a cheap guitar that set him back all of $20. I did manage to learn the basics but it was a shit-fight the whole way(excuse my French). The damned thing wouldn't stay in tune for more than 20 minutes at a time and even when it was, it sounded flat and dead. A couple of years later I had saved up my pennies and bought myself my first serious guitar... an Ovation Balladeer. The change in sound and the change in my playing was instantaneous and somewhat amazing. With a fine instrument in my hands, it was suddenly doing what I wanted it to, rather than requiring me to fight with it in order to get something semi-reasonable to happen. The quality of this guitar motivated me to push all previous boundaries and before I knew it, I was a "guitarist" rather than a mere student.

    What I'm trying to say is that a "cheap" coffee machine will teach you the basics and you will be able to produce the occassional semi-worthy coffee... BUT... it won't be easy or a whole lot of fun and a fine machine will bring out the barista in you far sooner and be far more of a joy to play with along the way.

    Comment


    • #17
      A moka is more forgiving for stale/supermarket stale pre-ground beans. It will actually taste better than trying to make espresso with them. I remember the first time I tried fresh roasted beans and it was night and day to the supermarket beans, which themselves are greatly improved over pre-ground supermarket.

      If you don't like milk, I'd recommend a grinder and an Aeropress...

      Comment


      • #18
        I bought a used Gaggia Classic from eBay a while ago. At eighty bucks it definitely qualified as a cheap espresso machine.

        And I'd say it was definitely not a bad idea, though coupled with home-roasting and a hand grinder the morning coffee is a fairly involved affair but it is well worth it and is value for money too.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by goodbyesoberday View Post
          I bought a used Gaggia Classic from eBay a while ago. At eighty bucks it definitely qualified as a cheap espresso machine.

          And I'd say it was definitely not a bad idea, though coupled with home-roasting and a hand grinder the morning coffee is a fairly involved affair but it is well worth it and is value for money too.
          It seems there are some good deals to be had for coffee machines on ebay. Generally I avoid ebay and Gumtree as I've rarely had good experiences with them but I figure if it's something I'm going to be picking up, I can at least check it out properly before I hand over any cash.

          Here's one I seem to have just missed out on: eBay link removed per site posting policy
          Last edited by Javaphile; 24 December 2013, 12:27 AM. Reason: eBay link removed

          Comment


          • #20
            Yes- We pick up the pieces and reassemble them for the owners of bargain buys- often at significant expense each week. Bothe sites can be great places to procure a dead machine "recently serviced and in perfect condition".

            If you don't know what to look for find somebody who does. They're only bargains if you don't blow your dough.

            PS- suggest you have a read over http://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-har...icy-rules.html to save you breaking them.

            Comment


            • #21
              Yup you're right C. When I read the original question I took it to mean cheap NEW machines. Never thought about the things people will spend their hard earned on, in strange "auction" sites. I wouldnt buy a USED / CHEAP machine unless it could be demonstrated to be fully functional at time of pick up and seeming to be absolutely fine. Dont know how anyone could do that when purchasing off a website.

              As an aside I know directly of an instance where someone bought a cheap crappy old thing off unsaid site. The purchasor afterwards jacked up at my employers and wanted a water pump fitted "under guarantee". This is because the vendor had done exactly what you wrote and put on his add words to the effect of : "...recently serviced by ...". What they omitted to say in the add was they had been told (amongst other things) the water pump needed replacement but they had elected NOT to go ahead, as they were going to sell it shortly and didnt want to spend the money. The machine was running but not fully functional, our advice had not been taken, and as far as we were concerned it was for the dump (condition and age etc).

              And all of a sudden, we were having demands placed to supply a new water pump to an unrelated third party, at our cost under our service guarantee......!

              Yeah, right on that one !

              So our client purchased a water pump from us to give to his auction site client......resulting in that person having bought a machine that was still for the dump, but sporting a nice shiny new water pump

              If you dont know what you are looking at in any of those sites, dont buy that stuff.
              Last edited by TOK; 24 December 2013, 09:14 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                PS- suggest you have a read over http://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-har...icy-rules.html to save you breaking them.
                Apologies, I had thought that because the auction had ended that it was ok to post.

                Comment


                • #23
                  On a budget, if you have a grinder a stovetop is still the way to go.

                  If you don't have a grinder then a nespresso is worth consideration.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by herzog View Post
                    On a budget, if you have a grinder a stovetop is still the way to go.

                    If you don't have a grinder then a nespresso is worth consideration.
                    It turns out I do have a stovetop. I had thought they were called percolators and that the drip/filter things were called something else. It's also been recommended that I look for a stainless steel stovetop so recommendations for those would be appreciated as well.

                    If the Hario Skerton hand-grinder is a good one and there aren't any recommendations for something of similar price range, I'll probably go that first up.

                    As for the Nespresso, I would've thought they'd be anathema to people here? I have an ALDI Expressi solely for the convenience of it but have stopped using it because I need something stronger, plus the expense of the pods no longer seems worthwhile to me.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      ThankDog, if you already have an aluminium stop top espresso machine (moka, bialetti, whatever name its all the same) you already have a great machine for someone on a budget. The aluminium is porous and for that reason it seasons with coffee oils over time and the coffee gets better.

                      A stainless steel stove top espresso machine does not season over time because the stainless steel is not porous so what you get straight up is what you get forever. Less forgiving of operator, I would stick with the aluminium machine but that's just me.

                      Some people dont know how to use them to best effect (same story as with any coffee making machine or device) so there is always room for improvement. If you manage it well, it will reward....no risk.

                      If you are on such a tight budget, preground could be the way to go as was written in a roundabout way somewhere above, stovetops are forgiving of preground coffee and make a reasonable brew with it (as long as you have chosen your brand well).

                      OR god forbid, I cant tell you how many Italian families have used stove tops in conjunction with el cheapo spinning propeller coffee (grinders) for decades and make a bloody good cup of coffee. It all comes down to knowing your equipment and using it properly, and again the stove top is rather forgiving of the uneven grind produced by spinning prop "grinders".

                      The trouble with forums is that people can start to feel insecure about what they are already doing, want more or "better" and get caught up in the whirlwind of upgradeitis, when, there may be absolutely no need to feel insecure about what you are already doing.....as long as you are doing it well.

                      We dont know what your technique is for making coffee in your stovetop, so there could be room for improvement and no need to get caught up trying to buy something else that may not deliver what you expect and where you may in fact waste valuable coin.

                      Hope that helps.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Making good coffee is not complicated. People make it complicated.

                        However, at the lowest starting price you can get a very nice coffee with an AeroPress and Hario or similar small ceramic grinder.

                        Machine this, machine that, there is more than one way to making exceptional coffee, and it doesn't have to involve a $4,000+ prosumer coffee machine- mind you, there's nothing at all wrong if it does. I'm just pointing out, you don't have to go down that road, if you don't want to. I mostly agree with everyone's comments re buying used machines. It is absolutely true that good machines keep their value well. If something appears too good to be true, blah, blah, blah.

                        As many have pointed out, 'cheap' generally means low quality which can greatly frustrate and hinder your efforts. Don't go there, at any price point.

                        However, it is possible to buy a sub $1,000- machine that produces exceptional coffee. In this price range though you don't get all the 'bells and whistles' and to a greater or lesser extent you become more engaged in the coffee making process.
                        If you do some more extensive 'research' you will find many very experienced home barista's own and use a 'Arrarex Caravel'. This is a humble kettle type manual lever espresso machine that has an excellent reputation for producing excellent espresso, in the cup.
                        You can't buy these new anymore, but most people buy them (used) from Europe and there are several reputable sources for good used machines. Parts are available, but might take a bit of probing to find.

                        If you want more basic manual espresso machines, there is the likes of the Bahco and Otto, 'the little guy' which can both produce genuine high quality espresso shots- but within their own limited profiles. Both are well under $1,000-

                        Having said all the above, the first money you spend should be on the grinder. The advantage of a manual grinder is you can get a high end commercial grinding burr for much less money than an electric with the equivalent burr set. IMHO the best bang for buck is the OE Pharos. It sells for USD$245- plus postage and for that investment you will have a higher-end large (commercial burr) conical grinder. You would need to be spending upwards of $1,500- to get this burr set in a good quality electric grinder.
                        PS. Lot's of people have a Pharos, but I've never seen one for sale secondhand. That right there should tell you something.

                        If you want to take your espresso coffee up into the heady world of amazing coffee, then I'd highly recommend the Rossa Portaspresso. It's a completely manual extraction, but the results are unequalled by anything in this or virtually any price range. It is an astonishing device that is hugely undervalued. These do come up for sale occasionally. I bought mine here at the snobbery. They are not difficult to use, but they are not for everyone and like a piano can take a lifetime of practice to keep getting more of the very best out of it.

                        For the record, I have no commercial interest in any equipment, but I do own and use a Pharos (VD Mod) and Portaspresso, so I speak from my experience.

                        I also have a Bodum 'Pebo', which is an all glass coffee siphon. It only cost me $50- and whilst it doesn't produce espresso's, the blacks are an incredibly pleasant clear flavour. People who 'never drink black' coffee have thoroughly enjoyed a brew from the Pebo. The coffees whilst not as intense as espresso are also very satisfying.

                        The overriding caveat on all of the above is good quality 'Fresh' roasted beans. To get the best coffee, you must learn about fresh roasted coffee and how and when it reaches it's peak. Then you know what to look for and which questions to ask when you buy your beans. (Or roast your own)

                        The good news is you can enjoy amazing coffee with quite a modest budget. Enjoy!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
                          Making good coffee is not complicated. People make it complicated.

                          However, at the lowest starting price you can get a very nice coffee with an AeroPress and Hario or similar small ceramic grinder.

                          Machine this, machine that, there is more than one way to making exceptional coffee, and it doesn't have to involve a $4,000+ prosumer coffee machine- mind you, there's nothing at all wrong if it does. I'm just pointing out, you don't have to go down that road, if you don't want to. I mostly agree with everyone's comments re buying used machines. It is absolutely true that good machines keep their value well. If something appears too good to be true, blah, blah, blah.

                          As many have pointed out, 'cheap' generally means low quality which can greatly frustrate and hinder your efforts. Don't go there, at any price point.

                          However, it is possible to buy a sub $1,000- machine that produces exceptional coffee. In this price range though you don't get all the 'bells and whistles' and to a greater or lesser extent you become more engaged in the coffee making process.
                          If you do some more extensive 'research' you will find many very experienced home barista's own and use a 'Arrarex Caravel'. This is a humble kettle type manual lever espresso machine that has an excellent reputation for producing excellent espresso, in the cup.
                          You can't buy these new anymore, but most people buy them (used) from Europe and there are several reputable sources for good used machines. Parts are available, but might take a bit of probing to find.

                          If you want more basic manual espresso machines, there is the likes of the Bahco and Otto, 'the little guy' which can both produce genuine high quality espresso shots- but within their own limited profiles. Both are well under $1,000-

                          Having said all the above, the first money you spend should be on the grinder. The advantage of a manual grinder is you can get a high end commercial grinding burr for much less money than an electric with the equivalent burr set. IMHO the best bang for buck is the OE Pharos. It sells for USD$245- plus postage and for that investment you will have a higher-end large (commercial burr) conical grinder. You would need to be spending upwards of $1,500- to get this burr set in a good quality electric grinder.
                          PS. Lot's of people have a Pharos, but I've never seen one for sale secondhand. That right there should tell you something.

                          If you want to take your espresso coffee up into the heady world of amazing coffee, then I'd highly recommend the Rossa Portaspresso. It's a completely manual extraction, but the results are unequalled by anything in this or virtually any price range. It is an astonishing device that is hugely undervalued. These do come up for sale occasionally. I bought mine here at the snobbery. They are not difficult to use, but they are not for everyone and like a piano can take a lifetime of practice to keep getting more of the very best out of it.

                          For the record, I have no commercial interest in any equipment, but I do own and use a Pharos (VD Mod) and Portaspresso, so I speak from my experience.

                          I also have a Bodum 'Pebo', which is an all glass coffee siphon. It only cost me $50- and whilst it doesn't produce espresso's, the blacks are an incredibly pleasant clear flavour. People who 'never drink black' coffee have thoroughly enjoyed a brew from the Pebo. The coffees whilst not as intense as espresso are also very satisfying.

                          The overriding caveat on all of the above is good quality 'Fresh' roasted beans. To get the best coffee, you must learn about fresh roasted coffee and how and when it reaches it's peak. Then you know what to look for and which questions to ask when you buy your beans. (Or roast your own)

                          The good news is you can enjoy amazing coffee with quite a modest budget. Enjoy!!!
                          Excellent post Grumpy, its nice to see an even handed post like this with out the dogmatic overtones and ludicrous statements we have been subjected to of late.

                          Merry Christmas.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Are cheap espresso machines a bad idea?

                            Originally posted by ThankDog View Post
                            As for the Nespresso, I would've thought they'd be anathema to people here? I have an ALDI Expressi solely for the convenience of it but have stopped using it because I need something stronger, plus the expense of the pods no longer seems worthwhile to me.
                            Sure pods aren't nearly as good as an HX + fresh beans + grinder + competent user, but if you don't have a grinder they are the only way to produce remotely fresh espresso. They also are pretty consistent.

                            Given we're talking about a $150 budget, it's definitely an option. There's no grinder + machine combo for that price that's in any way satisfactory.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by herzog View Post
                              pods
                              >remotely fresh
                              >espresso.
                              Lawl.

                              Not that I disagree that it's the best/only option, but sometimes you just have to admit that you'll have to save up for what you're asking to become obtainable.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by herzog View Post
                                Sure pods aren't nearly as good as an HX + fresh beans + grinder + competent user, but if you don't have a grinder they are the only way to produce remotely fresh espresso. They also are pretty consistent.

                                Given we're talking about a $150 budget, it's definitely an option. There's no grinder + machine combo for that price that's in any way satisfactory.
                                And if you cant afford pods (they are probably the most expensive way of buying coffee) then I guess its instant for you.
                                Great Coffee POD Scam - Gadgets

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X