Are cheap espresso machines a bad idea?

[Journeyman]

I recently started using the Moka pot again after having let it sit for several months. The water chamber had been left clean since my last use but when I went to use it again there were... bits in it. Almost like metal filings. I'm not even sure what it was but it was like the aluminium had "rusted" with a sort of white metallic powder.

So I scrubbed it with a metal scourer. Oops.

Here's what I would do - go buy some cheap beans at Coles and run the entire kilo through the pot. Sink them. Do it properly (i.e. not burning the brew) and rub the internals after every few shots - NOT scrub. Just wipe it down. Maybe do it in batches and leave the pot disassembled to air overnight than do a few more the next day and so on.

You want that patina on the surface to prevent further oxidising.

[Ol_Grumpy]

I would also strongly recommend you start with quality roasted beans from a quality supplier. There are many, many variables in getting a good coffee, consistently. And starting with a reliable and predictable roasted bean is a good foundation to build on.

Although, really, having said that, Roasting coffee is not hard, you can roast green beans in a fry pan on your stove. : simple
However, Getting consistency and predictable flavours in the roasting of the beans is an entirely different conversation altogether.

I always found my camping grade mocha pot delivered a good strong coffee hit. Head and shoulders above anything instant. And I suppose any beans will do!
It's your journey and you take it any way you want!
But if you want to start getting into the many delights and nuances of SO, well I guess it's time to get a little upgradeitis going on.....

I would really encourage you to 'jump-in' and get started... Fine coffee is a journey of a thousand steps and there's no better time to get started than right now! Enjoy!

[ThankDog]

Also, you described the really cheap (think mafia bribed construction quality) ones that came through in droves in the '80's & 90's: more like white metal than aluminum. Yuk.

I have two. One's a cheapie steel one from ALDI that I only use when making more than one cup. The other is a proper Bialetti Moka that is the AI one and just a single shot. I scrubbed the boiling/water chamber because of the weird white metallic growths.

Someone should also mention, I am not sure why you want to venture into roasting coffee when the method of brewing hasnt been decided or the method of operation nailed yet, especially if a cheap popper is the only way you can go at the moment.

I have a tendency to rush into things. I think it's borne of never having a long-term, stable income despite trying everything under the sun (including owning and operating my own business and just about every crappy job you can think of) to make a career happen. So when I fixate on something I consider it a goal to work towards and jump in head first, using whatever money I can put together from whatever jobs I can get. Then I wait until I find a good deal, buy whatever I can to make it happen and then learn everything I can about it. It's a mentality of, "If I don't do it, I'll never have the chance to try again," that has made me the dilettante I am today

Besides, part of my interest in learning about all of this is to maybe one day turn it into a job/career. I learn by doing as theory tends to be retained by other people's brains from all the leakage from mine. Plus I tend to make so many mistakes in everything that I do that I've become used to the methodology of learning from them

[TOK]

I recently started using the Moka pot again after having let it sit for several months. The water chamber had been left clean since my last use but when I went to use it again there were... bits in it. Almost like metal filings. I'm not even sure what it was but it was like the aluminium had "rusted" with a sort of white metallic powder.

So I scrubbed it with a metal scourer. Oops.

Moka pots should (must?) not be scrubbed, and must (should?) always be stored disassembled as in the two halves not screwed together, with funnel out. You could store it on the bench instead of in a cupboard where the flow of air is restricted. And if you wanted to take it further you could take the seal and top filter out as well but I cant see the point of that while the machine is in regular use (although if you were in a very humid environment maybe you would consider that too???)

I dont know that I would ever again "trust" an aluminium machine that's been scrubbed with a metal scourer, so I think you just lost your one coffee making utensil and need to decide what you are going to try next...first! Someone should also mention, I am not sure why you want to venture into roasting coffee when the method of brewing hasnt been decided or the method of operation nailed yet, especially if a cheap popper is the only way you can go at the moment. At least at first if not for a long learning curve, that is the way to roast the worlds worst and most variable coffee, which will have you chasing your tail questioning if its the coffee, or the machine, or your technique or whatever.... I would rather be sussing out my method of brewing and a grinder and learning them properly before going anywhere near the roasting of coffee.

Nevertheless, you gotta do what you gotta do, and I hope you enjoy your coffee journey.

PS...does all of this mean that aluminium IS or IS NOT porous, or has the issue simply been sidestepped in the apparent agreement that aluminium moka pots do season regardless

[TampIt]

I recently started using the Moka pot again after having let it sit for several months. The water chamber had been left clean since my last use but when I went to use it again there were... bits in it. Almost like metal filings. I'm not even sure what it was but it was like the aluminium had "rusted" with a sort of white metallic powder.

So I scrubbed it with a metal scourer. Oops.

Hi ThankDog

Where are you and what size (in ml or litres, cup sizes were fictional) do you want? PM me with the contact details. I have quite a few stainless ones in my shed plus a spare seal for most of them. I will send you one for the postage alone if you like. I probably have the original packaging for most of them, so it should arrive "wherever" OK. Think of it as a Xmas present plus doing me a favour (gotta start getting rid of the stuff I do not use any longer). Comes from commuting across three houses for five years in the late '90's, the shed stuff is a bit bureaucratic (everything in triplicate).

Although I haul out my favourite one every so often, the other ones haven't been touched since 2002. Just for the humour: my favourite one is a cheap Chinese knockoff of a Vev original from the brief period when the Chinese made world class stainless steel (i.e. just before world nickel prices soared and the Chinese started cutting corners). Way better steel than any of my other "true blue Italian ones". A very slightly different shape (have to put them next to each other to see it) and it makes better coffee. Go figure. Three months later and the same brand's "steel" was not even suitable to turn into a sink (or a street drain for that matter).

Anyway, if you have scrubbed the patina off your aluminum one, I would hesitate to use it as you would have to re-season it all over again. Also, you described the really cheap (think mafia bribed construction quality) ones that came through in droves in the '80's & 90's: more like white metal than aluminum. Yuk. They shed & will never be any good.

BTW, nothing to do with the Alzheimer / aluminum thing. The '70's paper that promoted that was disproved in months. Another example of crap "scientific research" with seriously flawed data. FYI, no aluminum in the brain, you are rather late (like the Monty Python parrot).

Anyway, enjoy your NY.

TampIt

[ThankDog]

I think Aluminium should season. The furore over using Al and it's connection to Alzheimers and senility symptoms brought a reaction in the sense of testing - the advice was do NOT scrub Al pots with metal scrubbers as it removes the patina (think they called it that) that forms on the surface and exposes the Al to leeching into foods etc.

So I think using coffee in an Al container would perhaps flavour the patina a little like a cast iron pan picks up flavours when you season it - and likewise with them you never scrub them or else you have to run the seaonsing process again.

I recently started using the Moka pot again after having let it sit for several months. The water chamber had been left clean since my last use but when I went to use it again there were... bits in it. Almost like metal filings. I'm not even sure what it was but it was like the aluminium had "rusted" with a sort of white metallic powder.

So I scrubbed it with a metal scourer. Oops.

[Journeyman]

I think Aluminium should season. The furore over using Al and it's connection to Alzheimers and senility symptoms brought a reaction in the sense of testing - the advice was do NOT scrub Al pots with metal scrubbers as it removes the patina (think they called it that) that forms on the surface and exposes the Al to leeching into foods etc.

So I think using coffee in an Al container would perhaps flavour the patina a little like a cast iron pan picks up flavours when you season it - and likewise with them you never scrub them or else you have to run the seaonsing process again.

[TampIt]

I did.

And although I didn't get crema, I did manage to find out that under high pressure my Moka Pot leaks

Hi ThankDog

Two "stove top espresso makers" thoughts here for you to consider.

1) Replace the seal. The only time my Carmencita's (stove top espresso makers) leak is when the seal is cracked and in need of binning. The early warning sign: the coffee develops a slightly burnt taste which is persistent. You nailed both symptoms in earlier posts. If overdone constantly, some aluminum pots do pick up the burnt flavour.

2) The stainless / aluminium controversy. IMO, the aluminum stove top espresso makers do season. Then all the coffee that comes out of them is the same flavour range no matter what beans you put into them. As long as that is to your liking, it may not be a bad thing. The better grade stainless ones just give you the actual taste of whatever beans you are using. Lower grade stainless are simply horrible, so you need to know your grades before parting with your readies, especially if they are limited.

The other repeated thought: try for a good conical grinder before you actually pay for a machine. If one drops into your lap, fine, take it.

Hope this helps.

TampIt

[deegee]

$12 from Target currently. Will be picking one up next week

You need to be aware that the Target "own brand" poppers are a bit under-powered. They will usually work OK in Summer, but may not reach crack temps in cold weather. Have a read through this thread for lots of info :- http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...orn-maker.html

Also, their safety thermostat may cut off the heat before you get much past first crack, or maybe even before you reach it. See this more recent thread re the thermostat cutting out too soon :- http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...-than-one.html

This thread has info on popper roasting in general, and mods you can do to make them better for roasting coffee :- http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...icks-mods.html

Re good coffee on a budget - I have a Hario Skerton grinder which works quite well for the price, and I bought a good S/H sunbeam EM 0480 for $95 which also gives good results for the money.

I also bought a fairly old but working Gaggia Classic off Gumtree for about $85. The seller gave me a demo before I paid for it. Then I bought another at $50 for spare parts. It was not working, but when I got it home I found it could be simply and easily fixed.

I have since bought another in working condition for $150 to give to one of my daughters. It was a bit newer than the others and in good working order. They are good little machines, and I have become a big fan of them.

You may have to be patient, but they do come up for sale at these prices from time to time.

Cheers, deegee.

[Journeyman]

There's a neat stovetop espresso machine on ebay. Neat little unit if it works as shown and only $149 brand new...

[BoxBrownie]

If I had $150 to spend and was starting from scratch I would buy :
1_ Porlex mini grinder
2_Stovetop mokha
3_Aeropress
4_a popcorn popper

You can do an awful lot with those items.
You might get lucky and find a decent espresso machine s/h for $150 (I got a Sunbeam 6910 for about that and a Gaggia evolution for similar before that but it takes a lot of hunting.

[ThankDog]

KMart in Burwood had popcorn poppers for under $20 a while back.

$12 from Target currently. Will be picking one up next week

[richard_m_h]

I alternate between Vittoria and freshly roasted beans (ground) from Coffee Max in Camberwell, primarily because of travel and budget limitations. As finances allow, however, I'll be attempting to roast and grind my own and eventually get a machine.

Caffe Romeo in North Balwyn roasts their own beans and are better than most. Use them when I forget to order from Andy.

KMart in Burwood had popcorn poppers for under $20 a while back.

[TOK]

Re stovepot: I dont know what you saw on ewechoob, but if you are going to mound the grinds in the funnel it has to only be very slight....take a look at the angle of the top filter that the grinds go against in the top part of the machine. Its only slightly rounded. That is in fact what I do... The leak you had meant it was mounded too much and when you did the two halves up, some grinds were pushed into the area of the seal...

Re plunger: dont be put off just yet. I bet you are using or have used one in the "traditional Australian" way which is to use a coarse percolator grind....and you get weak as weasel p*&$# coffee. You can go as fine as you like its up to you, given the inadequate filter is never going to stop any fines getting through including when using a coarse grind. Its a con, and other nationalities use different methods and get far more acceptable coffee. If you dont care about the fines, suggest using a much finer grind - try an espresso grind - some people go even finer - and play with the dose to see what works for you. The plunger will then give a much different, much more flavoursome, stronger coffee. If you go too far, the coffee will suffer so.....you back it off and try again until you work out what suits you.

And as I said before, that's coffee on a budget!

Others will disagree I'm sure, and thats ok. You do what works for you.

[Hildy]

I've never been able to make a French press coffee that I've liked. Plus it seems to require more grounds just to get anything even near the strength of a moka pot or espresso. Unless there's some method I'm unaware of, it's just not my thing.

That's intrinsically true. Aeropress is massively different, though.

(French press needs coarse grounds or else it clogs and routes around the sidewall. Aeropress has reduced clogging tendencies, depending on filter, and doesn't leak around the sidewall so can take much higher filtering pressures.)