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  • Are cheap espresso machines a bad idea?

    I'm sure there are reasons why a $4000 espresso machine is a good buy but seeing as I'll struggle to get together $150 for a cheap one, they're not an option

    In fact, the reason I'm posting this question is because I'm wary of even spending $150. It's not that I'm cheap, I'm just poor. As someone once told me, "You have BMW tastes on a Torana budget." Regardless, are there any reasons why getting a cheap machine is a bad idea?

    Currently I use a stovetop percolator which is fine and all but I'm not keen on the metallic smell of it and I miss having crema. I know very little about espresso machines so I don't really understand why there is such a huge price difference between domestic machines. Any advice or help on this would be appreciated.

  • #2
    I had the same issue, re cash. I looked around and read quite a lot on here. The normal recommendations seem like a lot of work - to get some of the basic ones to work you have to stand on one leg, point your arse at Jupiter (but only when it is in opposition) and then pray twice to Mecca before temp surfing and fiddling with knobs.

    Everyone swears by them but if I had to do that every time I want a coffee I'd get treatment for it.

    I went for a twin thermoblock. It lets me steam milk AND pour coffee at the same time and it's at least $1500 cheaper than a twin boiler machine. I got a Sunbeam EM6910 for $350 and it came with an EM0480 grinder. Within a few days I was making better coffee than I got in many cafés and once I sorted the grinder it was no longer random.

    I've learned a lot and my coffee keeps getting better.

    There are cheap Brevilles (still cost more than equivalent generation SB's) but they are single boiler - back to the 'right heat for coffee, wait for steam' or 'right heat for steam, wait for coffee' issues - so my recommendation is for a SB - stay away from the 6900 - my reading suggests they can be problematic & I wouldn't get anything less than twin thermoblock. There's enough to learn as it is without adding in the mystic mumbo-jumbo of trying to temp surf or somehow find a way to let you make a coffee in less than 25 separate moves.

    You can get SB's for your $150 (sometimes) or even brand new for circa $450 or so. I'd go conical burr grinder to go with what you get. Which unless you've got a lot of cash, leaves you with something like the SB EM0480 or EM0450.

    Make sure they make you a coffee with the machine before you part with your cash.

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    • #3
      Thankdog, there are a thousand answers to your question(s). There are many good (and less good) reasons why domestic machines differ in price (you don't suggest which ones you are referring to), but there are fundamental differences in brewing technology (thermoblock, single boiler, dual boiler and heat exchanger) , differences in materials used, differences in quality control, and of course differences in $ spent on marketing which have to be recouped somehow.

      If you are after bang for your buck at the bottom end, throw it at a grinder and continue to enjoy your stove top, or maybe try an Aeropress (not espresso but a very enjoyable strong clean filter style drink). You can very good coffee with fresh beans, basic brewing tech and a willingness to experiment.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ThankDog View Post
        I'm sure there are reasons why a $4000 espresso machine is a good buy but seeing as I'll struggle to get together $150 for a cheap one, they're not an option

        In fact, the reason I'm posting this question is because I'm wary of even spending $150. It's not that I'm cheap, I'm just poor. As someone once told me, "You have BMW tastes on a Torana budget." Regardless, are there any reasons why getting a cheap machine is a bad idea?

        Currently I use a stovetop percolator which is fine and all but I'm not keen on the metallic smell of it and I miss having crema. I know very little about espresso machines so I don't really understand why there is such a huge price difference between domestic machines. Any advice or help on this would be appreciated.
        Hi ThankDog

        Where are you? I know a few CS's who upgrade & their old machines would be going around that price. It also means you get a well loved Toyota not a trashed repair job, which is becoming a big issue these days.

        New: All the $150 ones I have seen have dual floor baskets / p/f filters and are not 58mm baskets so they are a one way ticket to the tip. Generally it is not possible to tinker with standard baskets etc. and learn your craft with them. Note: Someone makes a single floor (54mm???) basket for a $150 Breville Cafe Roma, I have used it. However it does not take a standard shot of espresso, so it is more a curiosity than a fix.

        I agree w BOS, a decent grinder will do a lot more for your coffee than an espresso machine, especially if you do not have one and are using "plunger / drip grounds" via a supermarket (shudder). The whole grind is wrong for an espresso machine.

        Hope this helps.


        TampIt
        Last edited by TampIt; 22 December 2013, 10:13 PM. Reason: Bad hair day w typos

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        • #5
          Short answer is "you get what you pay for".

          I started with a heat exchanger machine and an expensive grinder.
          I didn't work my way up from one cheap machine to the next and subsequently have saved money in the long run

          However I was fortunate to be able to do that at the time.

          Having said that, I used a Sunbeam 6910 at work for a while with a good grinder and fresh beans and it made decent coffee.

          If you're on such a limited budget I second the Aeropress ($50) but if you must have crema your quest may be impossible until you save more money.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thundergod View Post
            If you're on such a limited budget I second the Aeropress ($50) but if you must have crema your quest may be impossible until you save more money.
            Never say never!

            I have some health issues which make finding and keeping work difficult but when I do get work I tend to save money very quickly. Living cheaply has its perks as it teaches you frugality and necessity. Coffee is a luxury I'm willing to work at finding a way to get the best I can for the least money. And when I finally manage to save up, I'll go buy a nice, broken, shop machine for cheap, fix it up, and have my first $4,000 coffee

            Until then, it's a popcorn maker and whatever else I can scrounge together

            As for grinders, there seems to be a lot of importance placed on them. I was looking at grinders but was considering something like that as a last on the list option. If a grinder is more important than the machine for beans I'm going to roast myself, then maybe that's where I should focus?

            Is the Hario Skerton commercial link removed per site posting policy hand grinder any good? Or is this something that requires a machine to get a good result? Sorry, I realise now that I should've asked a more broad question than just espresso machines but I'm still learning

            As for the AeroPress, whilst I've heard and read a lot of good things about it, I'm not really keen on it simply because it's a press. My understanding is that it doesn't make the richer, more concentrated coffee like you get from a percolator or espresso machine and my desire is to move up from a percolator to something more concentrated than down to a watery coffee. By all means correct me if I'm mistaken there as I'd love a $50 solution
            Last edited by Javaphile; 23 December 2013, 06:30 PM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

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            • #7
              I posted something to this thread before and it's disappeared? Was there a mod edit or did it get eaten by an internet blackhole?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ThankDog View Post
                I posted something to this thread before and it's disappeared? Was there a mod edit or did it get eaten by an internet blackhole?
                Blackhole.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                  Blackhole.
                  Well, in that case I won't go through and quote everyone I wanted to reply to again and instead generalise.

                  It seems that a grinder is the most important start. I probably should've just made a general thread about starting gear on the cheap but I thought the machine would be the primary focus. My intention is to get a popcorn machine and try roasting my own beans. That's 90% of the reason why I came here as I was led here from OCAU by nefarious powers that be. I had thought that roasting at home was way beyond my means but it actually seems to be a reasonably accessible hobby. Plus I exist off of coffee. I have a fairly severe sleep disorder and have had it ever since I can remember so I've grown up with coffee as a staple just to remain remotely cognizant throughout the day.

                  I rather like the idea of hand grinding and have seen a nice ceramic hand grinder for $60. Is that a realistic option or is a machine really required to get it fine enough?

                  AeroPress is something I considered but after looking into it, it would seem that it's basically just a fancy French press which doesn't excite me. I was wanting the espresso partly for crema and partly for a stronger, more concentrated espresso than I'm currently getting in a percolator. So an AeroPress would seem like a move down not up.

                  Umm... I think that was all from the post I lost. Hope the Doctor has fixed that black hole. Can't have them roaming about willy-nilly.

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                  • #10
                    I have started with a good coffee machine but with a bad grinder that was a bit of a disaster start;
                    But i have also played with a cheaper coffee machine with a good grinder and it came out pretty good for my taste
                    I was like you in the begining when I didnt know if I will keep on going with a hobby after the initial OMG phase, so I did not want to spend big money on getting a machine which I may loose interest in...
                    I was fortunate enough to be able to pick up stuff cheap (from Gumtree and CSers here) that got me going on my coffee experience so far... but the end of the day, you make the best of what you have... (like the old saying about workman and his tools..)

                    Good luck with your search

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                    • #11
                      A hand grinder with ceramic burrs can grind fine enough.
                      You didn't say which model you saw.

                      You can make an Aeropress brew stronger with longer steeping time and less water.
                      It's still not espresso though but more than a fancy french press.

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                      • #12
                        There's a huge range of machines between "cheap" and $4000. I would recommend the $500 to $1200 range for most people who'd make 2-5 coffees a day. If you want a more sort of home user/beginner experiences the upper range Breville and Sunbeams are all great machines. If you want a more cafe like experience with levels and so on, Silvia, Expobar and so on can be had for a little more. The advantage with these ones is that after market parts (portafilters etc.) are more standardised and interchangable.

                        With your kind of budget, $150 for a machine and grinder, even used... not sure if it can be done. You can have my old machine for free, still does the espresso part fine, the steam function has just lost power.

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                        • #13
                          My travel kit is an Aeropress and Hario Skerton. Works well. Makes good strong coffee. Not espresso. Think its better than a percolator as in my experience they burn the coffee. Hand grinder is a bit of work though. You may not want to make coffee for a dinner party.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thundergod View Post
                            You didn't say which model you saw.
                            I wasn't sure about posting links or about products here as there seems to be site sponsors and whatnot. It's a Hario Skerton (full size). Ceramic burrs. Looks pretty and I've been able to track one down for $50 so when I have the spare cash I thought I'd pick one up if they're good enough for the job.

                            Originally posted by Darkfalz View Post
                            You can have my old machine for free, still does the espresso part fine, the steam function has just lost power.
                            !

                            Umm, I'm not sure what to say. I don't like frothy milk anyway?

                            Originally posted by richard_m_h View Post
                            Think its better than a percolator as in my experience they burn the coffee.
                            I'm not sure if it burns it but I definitely smell a burnt smell at the end of it. As soon as mine starts making a noise I take it off the heat and let it sit for a minute. I once made the mistake of packing a larger percolator tightly and waiting for it to stop making bubbling sounds. I'm just lucky that it popped rather than exploded

                            Originally posted by richard_m_h View Post
                            Hand grinder is a bit of work though. You may not want to make coffee for a dinner party.
                            Guests? Getting my good coffee? Pfft, instant is good enough for them

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                            • #15
                              Question:
                              Are cheap espresso machines a bad idea?

                              Answer (1 of thousands of possible answers, but the first one that comes to mind) :
                              No. They sort out who you are and what you want. If you are after convenience, are anal about cleanliness, and want great coffee straight up, and are not prepared to carry on with this then....you're out of the ball game. If you are prepared to carry on and find something better, you're off and running, upgradeitis has set in.

                              In a way, el cheapo machines are good for business because sooner or later, the owners of want something better.

                              For the owner, it does mean however that he has to keep spending money.

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