Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question about espresso machine operation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
    The beans roast date is 21/05/2019.
    As for the 60ml single shot calibration. I first try to get it by the book as factory settings are 60ml for single shot and 120ml for double.
    30ml coffee out is single
    60ml coffee out is double

    It appears you are trying to compensate for the water retained in the puck. Don't bother, just concentrate on the volume of coffee out (not water out of the brew head). The actual volume of water out of the machine will be more as you've seen but don't worry about that - yes it will vary a tiny amount with different coffee types but you can recalibrate if needed.

    Its common these days to use a double basket (20g) to pull a single shot and a triple basket to pull double shots, so its a bit confusing. Also confusing is weighing the shot in the cup, so even though you are measuring grams, most people talk ml and assume 1ml = 1g (which is true for water and as coffee is 99.x% water, we'll assume the same conversion).

    If making "one drink", then a common recipe is 18-20g coffee with 30 ml output (30g liquid weight in the cup) with a 25-30 second extraction time (time from water touching puck to end - or 20-25 sec for first drop in cup to end). This is not hard and fast but just a starting point. You then need to adjust for taste, as different beans require quite different recipes.

    Comment


    • #17
      OK yeah that's confusing.

      So 30ml on double basket is single shot?

      When would one be using the single basket? And would it be with 9g coffee?


      Based on the youtube video I posted in my OP, I believe he's referring to 30ml combined but he pours on two separate glasses, so it's 15g liquid per glass.

      Wow I'm confused now


      By the way, what should be the acceptable range of temperature of the espresso?
      Given that the cup is pre-warmed.
      Last edited by Gil80; 26 May 2019, 04:40 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        I wouldn't stress about the difference between a single and a double, or which button is which. If you can program the buttons they may as well be labelled A and B because their function is as you set it. When talking about the yield (the liquid coffee you get in the cup) measure it and talk about it in grams. Yes the liquid part of the shot is pretty much 1ml=1g but the crema is much lighter, so for a shot with moderate to high crema 30ml may equal ~20g.

        Also I wouldn't bother experimenting too much until you get a non-pressurised basket. The pressurised one is going to skew your results heavily and what you learn is only going to change once you change the basket. I would suggest a Breville one for the BES920 or an Espresso HQ basket. Your tamper may or may not fit these baskets well. If you get a Breville basket you could always buy a plastic Breville tamper that comes with the BES920 as they fit well enough.

        As for temperature you want the water coming out of the machine onto the coffee to be around 93°C for medium roast, which it sounds like you have (1-2° higher for dark roast, 1-2° lower for light roast). Since the ground coffee is only room temperature it will cool the water down a bit near the start of the shot, so what you have in the cup at the end of the shot may average out to ~85°C.
        Last edited by level3ninja; 26 May 2019, 07:36 PM. Reason: Autocucumber

        Comment


        • #19
          While waiting for the pressurised basket, maybe try varying the time of extraction.
          I find that when dailing in for new beans, it's generally a drinkable and balanced drink at the 30 sec mark. If you are getting 120ml out, then enjoy your lungo!

          Surely, the single hole is the governing restriction at a coarser grind. If you go fine enough, surely the single hole will become irrelevant as the grind size is a greater restriction than the hole...

          Also, I think you need to do the 5c test, 18g sounds a lot for a generic double wall basket.

          As mentioned, it's no good you setting any volumetrics on group water flows, you need to set it with a restriction of the coffee grinds.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Jackster View Post
            While waiting for the pressurised basket, maybe try varying the time of extraction.
            I find that when dailing in for new beans, it's generally a drinkable and balanced drink at the 30 sec mark. If you are getting 120ml out, then enjoy your lungo!

            Surely, the single hole is the governing restriction at a coarser grind. If you go fine enough, surely the single hole will become irrelevant as the grind size is a greater restriction than the hole...

            Also, I think you need to do the 5c test, 18g sounds a lot for a generic double wall basket.

            As mentioned, it's no good you setting any volumetrics on group water flows, you need to set it with a restriction of the coffee grinds.
            What's the 5c test?

            And I didn't quite understand the last statement.

            I would like to set my single shot button to 30g coffee yield and the double shot to 60g coffee yield.

            Not sure what 60g is called, short lungo?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
              What's the 5c test?

              And I didn't quite understand the last statement.

              I would like to set my single shot button to 30g coffee yield and the double shot to 60g coffee yield.

              Not sure what 60g is called, short lungo?
              5c test is: After dosing and tamping your ground coffee, place a 5c coin onto the surface of the coffee and lock the handle into the machine. Remove the handle and remove the 5c piece. If there is a heavy indentation of the coin into the coffee, the does is too high. If there is no indentation at all, you can dose a bit more. If there is a faint indentation you are about right.
              It's a good way to get the capacity figured out for your particular basket.

              You can't accurately set a flowmeter controlled machine (how your machine measures water flow) to dispense the same amount of coffee each time as they often aren't accurate enough to adapt to different flow rates when extracting through coffee vs water flow with no restriction.

              You need to extract by weight only. It's always reliable as water volume and time can change from shot to shot.

              Extracting espresso higher than 2:1 (eg. 36g yield from 18g coffee) is rarely beneficial, however you can experiment with higher/lower yields as time goes on. In the early stages of learning, you need to control as many variables as you can and only change one at a time and see how it affects the output.

              There's heaps of information on this forum, youtube and the internet in general regarding all this but hands on experience and watching someone else work can be the most helpful. It may be worth checking your local area and seeing if there are any shops who offer training. It can sometimes be a bit expensive but it's well worth it to get that practical experience.

              Comment


              • #22
                Guru^

                11char

                Comment


                • #23
                  I think I got it.

                  So only measure in grams and not volume.

                  A true 1:3 ratio in 18g dose is 54g coffee.
                  While I was aiming for 60g as per the youtube video I've seen.

                  For starters I don't mind those variations in grams as long as the timing is within range and the taste is good.

                  I think it's going to be challenging to find non pressurised double basket to start with.
                  Until then, it's all futile.

                  I contacted the owner of Di Bartoli and they don't have something which is suitable for my portafilter, assuming it's a Breville copy.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
                    I think it's going to be challenging to find non pressurised double basket to start with.
                    Until then, it's all futile.
                    I might head to Aldi this week and see if i can find an open box and check the group handle. I've considered the handle sizes again and it is possible that it's a 58mm. It could be a hybrid Breville/Sunbeam machine with the outer styling being Breville but the internals being Sunbeam. The new range of Sunbeam machines use 58mm group heads. If that's the case, any 58mm basket should work in yours. Were you able to measure the internal diameter of the standard basket?

                    It is a really bizarre machine. The buttons, faceplate, steam knob and steam/hot water wands are a Breville BES820 design, the actual shape of the body looks like a Sunbeam EM4820.
                    The cup warming plate looks like a Breville BES250/BES840 with the ribs.

                    Can't justify $300 just to tear it apart though, unless someone wants to sponsor it as a scientific study haha.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dischucker View Post

                      Its common these days to use a double basket (20g) to pull a single shot and a triple basket to pull double shots, so its a bit confusing. Also confusing is weighing the shot in the cup, so even though you are measuring grams, most people talk ml and assume 1ml = 1g (which is true for water and as coffee is 99.x% water, we'll assume the same conversion).
                      And that assumption would be very dangerous. Brewed espresso coffee, including crema, is typically quite a way off the 1ml=1g relationship that is true for pure water. 30g of brewed coffee can easily have volume > 45mls. As Noiddle says above.....use weight (mass) if trying to measure brewing output.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Just a quick update: I used a digital thermometer to test the water coming out from the grouphead.

                        The machine was on for about 15 minutes before operation. It has a 30 minutes timeout.
                        I used an empty portafilter and I did a first run to warm the grouphead + portafilter + cup.
                        I emptied the cup and then run a 2nd time.
                        I emptied the cup again and run a 3rd time.

                        At the 3rd time, I measured the water temp and it was 70c. That seems quite low.
                        I ran an additional test on the water spout, the one the is used to make long black, and the temp was 75c.

                        Is this normal?
                        Should I return the machine?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
                          I might head to Aldi this week and see if i can find an open box and check the group handle. Were you able to measure the internal diameter of the standard basket?.
                          Please do and let me know what you think

                          I measured the single basket and it's also 58mm internal diameter.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                            And that assumption would be very dangerous. Brewed espresso coffee, including crema, is typically quite a way off the 1ml=1g relationship that is true for pure water. 30g of brewed coffee can easily have volume > 45mls. As Noiddle says above.....use weight (mass) if trying to measure brewing output.
                            Yes, from now on I will measure output with grams only.
                            I do think that this machine is due for refund: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...operation.html

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The only way to reliably measure the Brew Water Temperature, is to do so either using a Scace Device or a t/couple placed on top of the coffee puck which is connected to a suitable meter. 70C temp. water in the cup doesn't sound too bad to be honest...

                              Mal.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Ok, so I was able to find a 58mm non-pressurised double basket by VST from Di Bartoli.
                                Let the fun begin.

                                I'll aim to get 1:2 ratio. 18g dose for 36g liquid at about 25~30sec.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X