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  • #31
    VST baskets have a smaller target to hit, but when you hit it they can produce better coffee. They really show up flaws in technique, and it will take a while to get that down. Don't be disheartened if the learning curve is steep. Also if it's too hard and you want to put the VST in the cupboard for a while we won't judge. When I first got one (with a matched tamper to boot) I had a Breville BCG820 and it took me about 6 months to get my technique down. The Breville 920 basket or the Espresso HQ that I mentioned above will be more forgiving.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
      VST baskets have a smaller target to hit, but when you hit it they can produce better coffee. They really show up flaws in technique, and it will take a while to get that down. Don't be disheartened if the learning curve is steep. Also if it's too hard and you want to put the VST in the cupboard for a while we won't judge. When I first got one (with a matched tamper to boot) I had a Breville BCG820 and it took me about 6 months to get my technique down. The Breville 920 basket or the Espresso HQ that I mentioned above will be more forgiving.
      Hmmm... I'm scared now.

      There was a generic $20 basket and the $40 VST. I did feel it's too much but I didn't mind paying the extra if it meant better coffee. The build quality was obvious. VST looks and feels better.

      I don't know how sensitive I'll be to know what you mean by better coffee due to differences in basket brands. To start with, I have an entry level machine and entry level grinder so I'm off to a mediocre start anyway.

      But buying the what feels a better basket, at least gave me a sense of a better start.
      Am I a fool for paying that much for a basket?

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      • #33
        You sound very keen. Maybe get that portafilter converted to naked while you are there.

        You are not a fool, lots of us have vst baskets. And when you decide to upgrade your machine, you will have the basket ready to go.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
          But buying the what feels a better basket, at least gave me a sense of a better start.
          Am I a fool for paying that much for a basket?
          Not really. You can take that basket with you to any 58mm machine you upgrade to in the future.

          What i found important with my VST was to not overdose it at all. My results would be erratic with higher than the specified weight.
          If your basket says it's an 18g, dose 18g into it. If it's a 17g, dose 17g into it.

          Ensure the coffee is distributed and tamped evenly and you should be fine.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
            Not really. You can take that basket with you to any 58mm machine you upgrade to in the future.

            What i found important with my VST was to not overdose it at all. My results would be erratic with higher than the specified weight.
            If your basket says it's an 18g, dose 18g into it. If it's a 17g, dose 17g into it.

            Ensure the coffee is distributed and tamped evenly and you should be fine.
            It says 18g.
            I will post the tamping photo to get your approval

            I did find the pressure gauge being in range now.
            It took me 20 seconds for 18g dose and 36g liquid.

            The coffee was very bitter and somewhat cold.
            I don't think this machine is capable of 96deg or even 92deg.

            My beans were roasted on the 21st.

            My Breville SGP was set to 5.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jackster View Post
              You sound very keen. Maybe get that portafilter converted to naked while you are there.

              You are not a fool, lots of us have vst baskets. And when you decide to upgrade your machine, you will have the basket ready to go.
              I can't spend any more than I already have for converting. I used my savings from my photography business and my wife already gave me the look

              I compensated by buying her decaf beans because that's what she's having

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
                I did find the pressure gauge being in range now.
                It took me 20 seconds for 18g dose and 36g liquid.
                Don't rely on the gauge for your shots, use it as a guide. Rely on the parameters discussed previously and the appearance of the extraction. In this situation, you want to fine up your grind a bit more. Remember as well, purge your grinder for 2-3 seconds after making an adjustment. This way, the next shot you prepare will be comprised fully of the new grind setting.

                Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
                The coffee was very bitter and somewhat cold.
                I don't think this machine is capable of 96deg or even 92deg.
                It should be fine. Modern PID controllers and thermoblocks are extremely basic and reliable. It's always possible that there could be a problem particularly as it is a cheaper machine, but I've seen a huge range of PID controlled thermoblock machines and have never had one fail in a low temperature way due to a faulty PID or temperature sensor.

                Make sure the portafilter is hot to the touch and your cup has been warmed up before you make the shot.

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                • #38
                  Dialing the shot

                  Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
                  Don't rely on the gauge for your shots, use it as a guide. Rely on the parameters discussed previously and the appearance of the extraction. In this situation, you want to fine up your grind a bit more. Remember as well, purge your grinder for 2-3 seconds after making an adjustment. This way, the next shot you prepare will be comprised fully of the new grind setting.



                  It should be fine. Modern PID controllers and thermoblocks are extremely basic and reliable. It's always possible that there could be a problem particularly as it is a cheaper machine, but I've seen a huge range of PID controlled thermoblock machines and have never had one fail in a low temperature way due to a faulty PID or temperature sensor.

                  Make sure the portafilter is hot to the touch and your cup has been warmed up before you make the shot.

                  Ok so after a couple days of testing with beans roasted on the 21st:
                  1. I did the 5c test on the VST 18g basket and there was no indentation of the coin on the coffee bed. I actually measure the portafilter and tare the scale and then measure 18g dosage with the portafilter.
                  2. When I pull a blank shot, the portafilter and cup are hot, but not as hot as I think they should be. I think the portafilter should be really hot to the touch, but it's not.
                  3. I still can't get the timing of the shot correctly. I'm now not too sure when to start the timer. When I press the button, the machine pulls water for a second. I think it's pre-infusion. Then it kicks in. I start the timer as soon as I see the pressure gauge moving.
                  4. I stop the machine when the liquid shows 25g because it's still pouring out liquid. I need to anticipate when to stop the machine because of the digital scale delay.
                  5. At about 36g liquid, I get to 20 seconds for 18g dose. The grinder is set to 6. I do my best to tamp evenly and not too tight.


                  What's confusing is that sometimes the machine barely puts out liquid and sometimes it's too fast.
                  The variable is probably because I'm trying to adjust the tamping and the grind setting. With the Breville SGP, I use between 4, 5 and 6 setting. Yet there is great lack of consistency with the speed of pouring liquid.

                  So I assume it's how compacted I make the coffee.

                  Results
                  Coffee comes out too bitter more often than not. I see consistency with bitterness and the pressure gauge overshooting the 'espresso range' on the scale.

                  Questions:
                  1. When should I really start the timer to measure pouring time? At the first drop? As the gauge starts moving? At the start of the pump after the initial pre-infusion?
                  2. I'm no expert, but should the coffee feel somewhere in between bitter an sour? I think that this machine doesn't put out enough hot water to get the flavours out.
                  3. Any other pointers?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Sounds like you need to let the machine warm up properly with the portafilter in the group head (a nip just enough to hold it not fully locked in). If everything isn't up to temp you'll get less extraction taking place.

                    Start the timer when you press the button. The reason the gauge doesn't start moving straight away is the space above the coffee needs to fill with water before any pressure will build. Most people count from when the water hits the coffee (almost as soon as you press the button).

                    Either regards to tamp pressure, how hard you press is far less important than doing it consistently every time. Tamp pressure E only really slows down the start of the shot, once you've got the first drops it's much the same after that.

                    Getting your 36g yield in 20s (though if you're waiting for the pressure gauge to move in guessing around 24-25s?) is too fast. Make the grind finer to slow the shot down.

                    From the sounds of it you're changing multiple things at once? You need to only change one thing at a time, and only change it a little bit. Even then you'll need to make a few shots in a row to see the change come all the way through consistently.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                      Sounds like you need to let the machine warm up properly with the portafilter in the group head (a nip just enough to hold it not fully locked in). If everything isn't up to temp you'll get less extraction taking place.

                      Start the timer when you press the button. The reason the gauge doesn't start moving straight away is the space above the coffee needs to fill with water before any pressure will build. Most people count from when the water hits the coffee (almost as soon as you press the button).

                      Either regards to tamp pressure, how hard you press is far less important than doing it consistently every time. Tamp pressure E only really slows down the start of the shot, once you've got the first drops it's much the same after that.

                      Getting your 36g yield in 20s (though if you're waiting for the pressure gauge to move in guessing around 24-25s?) is too fast. Make the grind finer to slow the shot down.

                      From the sounds of it you're changing multiple things at once? You need to only change one thing at a time, and only change it a little bit. Even then you'll need to make a few shots in a row to see the change come all the way through consistently.
                      I let the machine warm up for about 20 minutes. The portafilter is attached to the machine but it doesn't really get warm. The machine powers off automatically after 30 minutes.

                      The manual writes that once all LED are steadily lit, the water temp is achieved. I find this to be BS. Far more expensive machines take about 30 minutes to warm up. This $300 machine has the LED steady after 1 minute.

                      I have to pull a blank shot to warm up the portafilter and cup. I leave the water in the cup up to the point where I actually pull a real shot so the cup will get as close as possible to the water temp.

                      As for starting the timer, yes. I start it when the pressure gauge is moving. I've seen in youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3oSlZSXHog) that this person is also timing from the 1st drop.
                      This is the biggest variable for me. When to start the timer. From pressing the shot button? From the 1st drop? From the movement of pressure gauge?

                      The 2nd variable is the grind size. These are the only two things I'm trying to lock in. So far I've been consistent with timing from the 1st drop and once I saw it's not working well for me I switched to measure from gauge movement.
                      So I'm actually only dealing with grind size, but pointing out that I have concerns about this machine's ability to produce hot enough water.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Gil80 View Post
                        I let the machine warm up for about 20 minutes. The portafilter is attached to the machine but it doesn't really get warm. The machine powers off automatically after 30 minutes.

                        The manual writes that once all LED are steadily lit, the water temp is achieved. I find this to be BS. Far more expensive machines take about 30 minutes to warm up. This $300 machine has the LED steady after 1 minute.
                        The thermocoil reaches the set temperature very quickly so in this regard, the LED is indicating correctly.

                        If the machine has a Sunbeam group head, which I suspect it does, there is no physical connection between the thermocoil and the group head other than a water delivery tube. This makes warming up the portafilter by heat transfer through the group head alone not very effective as there is no direct contact between them.
                        Running water through the portafilter and ensuring it is hot is the only way to do it.

                        Is the portafilter heavy or light? Also get a magnet and see if it sticks to it. If it's light and non magnetic it's an alloy, they're notoriously bad at retaining heat. If it's heavy and magnetic, it's stainless steel which would be good. They retain heat better.

                        Another thing I forgot to mention which I should have, this machine is advertised as having a 19 bar pump. If there is no over pressure valve on the pump then it will be trying to deliver as much unregulated pressure as it can up to 19 bar (way too much, most machines are regulated to 9-10 bar). This can wreak havoc with predicting how the shot will perform.

                        I was in Aldi today but there was no unboxed machines. The store still had 10-12 of them on the shelf so hopefully they don't sell and come down in price over the next week or so, I might pick one up if they come down to 200 or thereabouts.

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                        • #42
                          @noidle22 if you're in Sydney, you're most welcome to my place to check the machine

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                          • #43
                            I stopped into Aldi on my way home. The box says "Thermoblock heating system" then immediately below "Die-cast aluminium alloy boiler with constant temperature" so I'm not confident they know what's in their machine either.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                              I stopped into Aldi on my way home. The box says "Thermoblock heating system" then immediately below "Die-cast aluminium alloy boiler with constant temperature" so I'm not confident they know what's in their machine either.
                              Not reassuring at all :/

                              Still not sure when to start timing.

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                              • #45
                                As a wise man once said
                                Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                                Start the timer when you press the button.

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