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  • #16
    Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

    Originally posted by ezralimm link=1214886480/0#12 date=1215075974
    I really really want to home roast. But me being a poor student, i couldnt really afford a raoster (eg. iRoast). I live in a room (hence the BIG humidity variation problem i face esp in winter) and cook in a communal kitchen.


    Ive done the tests. The commercial electric tops in the kitchen are unsuitable for pan roasting. They have heat transfer issues and dont work very well.

    The ovens are even worse. I cant toast garlic bread without getting some kind of "coooked oil" smell on it. They are cleaned, but not nearly regularly enough. I dont want to put coffee beans in them ever.

    I could get a popper, but then i have the problem of smoke alarms. My building is rigged up as though the owners thought it was made of dry wooden planks. Sometimes the alarms go off when i toast crumpets in my room or the nearby sink outside my room!!




    Perhaps when i move out next year ill try roasting.
    Im trying to imagine what its like to be in a typical uni hall of residence. Or a student apartment block (like College Square in Melb...) If it was college square type, I think itll be hard but if it was like the Monash Uni Halls of Residence, you could perhaps set up a popper using an extension lead from say the common room to the side of a hallway somewhere. It might attract a few inquisitive types but Im guessing the attention will be shortlived because uni students are involved in weirder misadventures and interests anyway (ie. it wouldnt be abnormal to have uni students grow interesting plants using very creative setups). In fact, home-roasting wouldbe considered pretty mild....
    Id persist with the bar italia baskets if I were you. Whereabouts are you located? If you were nearby, I could pass you some freshly roasted beans and see if it makes a difference to the deli ones youve been getting.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

      Hi erzalimm,

      Thanks for the thread and pics. This has been quite useful for me since Im nutting through a lot of these same issues working with the equivalent Breville to your Sunbeam (Café Roma - ESP8C). Read about my adventures here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1205812762/60.

      Im lucky in that I have room (and time) to roast, as well as a good grinder to get the most out of the fresh beans. But really, were in similar situations in terms of trying to get the best out of budget equipment...


      Originally posted by ezralimm link=1214886480/0#14 date=1215076859
      I do have the Bar Italia basket, but for some reason ive not been able to get a consistent results with it. Eventually, i gave up trying

      One day when i start working I will get a proper machine. For the meanwhile Im gonna stick with  the default baskets and try to make the most of it.
      Pressurised baskets are designed in such a way that they (to some degree) regulate the flow of coffee - the pinhole is only so big. This means that they probably produce more consistent results regardless of grinding, dosing and tamping factors - part of the pressurised baskets claim to usefulness for low-end machines...

      So, despite the fact that youve convinced me already that youre consistent, your "inconsistent results" with the Bar Italia baskets COULD be down to inconsistent grind/dose/tamp/other factor which is not being masked by the pressurised basket. COULD be that... could equally be down to the baskets not fitting the machine quite right (as in my case - I have Bar Italia baskets but they dont seal adequately with the Café Roma and I get blow outs).

      Now, its hypocritical of me to suggest this, but as long as they arent failing to seal or something, I think you should persist with the Bar Italia baskets! If mine sealed against the grouphead properly, Id use them! But at the moment I cant - or else I get hot water and grounds sprayed all over the coffee bench.

      In what respect are the Bar Italia baskets inconsistent? Or is it more of a case of "too expensive and wasteful to experiment properly"? I know the feeling...

      Cheers
      Stuart.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

        Hi stuart.

        Looks like youve been having pretty much the same problems Ive been having with the Bar Italia baskets.

        I cant prolong the shots long enough before water starts leaking down the sides and dripping into the cup.

        It just does not fit properly.

        However, when the stars nicely align with the moon and a butterfly flaps its wings on the other side of the globe, I can occasionally pull off a somewhat decent shot with the bar italia basket. This happens so rarely its not worth the effort and wasted pours.


        ---- Once all basket maintenance issues have been sorted out ---


        The pressurized basket produces very acceptable espresso when you learn how to discern the bad fake crema from the real one. The real crema looks funny as it has been squeezed through a pinhole, but it is still crema none the less and tastes alright.

        I guess pours with pale foam streaks (fake white foamish crema with a pressurized basket) is what many mistook for crema  --> leading to claims that pressurized baskets produced bad shots with lots of terrible fake crema.

        One of the main points of this guide is to show that it is possible to consistently avoid making that terrible pale fake crema with a pressurized basket.

        ... the problem is that you will eventuallyl have to pay as much attention as you would to a normal system with non-pressurized baskets as the fake crema just makes shot diagnosis a lot more difficult (see part 5 of guide)



        conclusion: the pressurized baskets makes it more difficult to make good espresso as it produces (terrible pale) fake crema when the grind is too coarse or the tamp too light*. It is possible to get a proper extraction eventually, but one must not be misled by the pale fake crema and strive to get an espresso that is dark and pours with resistance.


        *My guess is that on a non-pressurized basket such a flaw would be obvious --> gusher. But the pressurized basket "normalizes" the extraction time so the user thinks hes getting a proper 25s pour when in reality it was underextracted.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

          Update: A new cafe opened next to Coles Pinewood recently. Next to bakers delight.

          To my surprise, they sold freshly roasted beans and sell out their beans by the end of the week. This is probably because that area has very high traffic of shoppers.

          I bought 100g of their most popular blend to give it a try. The beans have a nice oily sheen to them and have a "chocolaty" smell.

          It took a full two clicks adjustment (coarser) to be able to pull a 20ml shot. Its like the grounds compress more in the basket. Is this normal?

          a 20ml/25s/9g shot produces a lighter crema than my previous lot of beans (as someone mentioned, probably semi-stale mocopan).. but it tastes so much better



          ^pic taken after stirring in half a teaspoon of sugar...prior to pouring in milk to make my morning cappuccino - hence the big black hole

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

            Ezralimm

            This is an Interesting Post/Journey you are taking us on.

            Ive been there myself with pressurised baskets and came to the conclusion that at best: the resultant espresso might look 70% as good as a real one and only taste 10% as good....ie you get some of the character of the beans, but the resultant mouthfeel is very thin and watery. Espresso is as much if not more about mouthfeel.

            A 20Kg tamp is higher than the norm [13.5Kg].
            Greg Pullman did a very interesting study of tamp pressure, in essence anything over 15Kg has little or no effect, in other words once a certain "compactedness" has been reached, thats it.
            I believe it is also possible to dislodge/crack the puck with too much pressure.
            Nevertheless, as you rightly point out consistant tamping pressure is critical.

            I agree with the others that fresh coffee is paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.

            BTW Those sunbeam grinders are reknowned for producing inconsistant grinds and explain exactly what you reported.
            I should know, Ive owned 2 of then.
            There are several work arounds you should check out

            I agree with the others that fresh coffee is totally paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

              Just wondering what setting you have your grinder on ? I have the EM0450 grinder but cant seem to find the ideal setting to prevent a gush.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                Its all relative. No grinder setting will be the same. Grind is variable. It depends on coffee blend/origin, temperature, humidity, dose, pump pressure etc.

                The best advice you will ever receive is to keep on going finer until you get the right pour....granted you have a good dose.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                  ezralimm,

                  I dont agree with pre weighing the beans before grinding. That is one of the most inconsistent methods I could ever think of. Try grinding by volume and using the collapse method. It takes a lot less time. When you get towards the end of the coffee grinding, you get what is called the pop-corn effect. The coffee gets coarser and coarser because there is no weight on top of the beans. Its very noticeable and why I think it is one of the most inconsistent methods of espresso preparation at home out there.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                    Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1214886480/20#22 date=1215600644
                    ezralimm,

                    I dont agree with pre weighing the beans before grinding. That is one of the most inconsistent methods I could ever think of. Try grinding by volume and using the collapse method. It takes a lot less time. When you get towards the end of the coffee grinding, you get what is called the pop-corn effect. The coffee gets coarser and coarser because there is no weight on top of the beans. Its very noticeable and why I think it is one of the most inconsistent methods of espresso preparation at home out there.
                    Agreed Dave,

                    I think the quicker this method dies, the better. Consistent popcorning lacks consistency

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                      Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1214886480/20#22 date=1215600644
                      ezralimm,

                      I dont agree with pre weighing the beans before grinding. That is one of the most inconsistent methods I could ever think of. Try grinding by volume and using the collapse method. It takes a lot less time. When you get towards the end of the coffee grinding, you get what is called the pop-corn effect. The coffee gets coarser and coarser because there is no weight on top of the beans. Its very noticeable and why I think it is one of the most inconsistent methods of espresso preparation at home out there.

                      Thanks for the advice Wushoes

                      Id love to do that.. But I only go through about 150g of beans per week currently. Im a student living in a small room and due to space constraints my grinder is right next to my machine and bath towel "-.- ... to a point where steam and humidity _will_ affect the coffee kept in it.

                      My current method (with a EM6910) involves pretty much what you are describing. I over grind about 16g of beans for the single basket. Then I level it off with a milkwand sheath. Some grounds are wasted but i dont mind. I think the EM6910 single basket holds a bit too much coffee...im more fidgety than usual.

                      I gave up with the pressurized baskets yesterday. I SACRIFICED A SKI TRIP TO MT BULLA !!!!    after learning that the EM6910 was only AUD559 at David Jones. Damn sometimes I wished i chose a different hobby.

                      Using fresh beans (delivered to shop from roaster on tuesday) i bought on wednesday, the first pour was a lil slow. Second pour was perfect... 30ml before blonding. It took kinda long - 35s, but tasted really really good. Made about 15 shots with the EM6910 already and im loving it. I find that longer shots (30-35s) seem to taste better than quicker pours. The needle is roughly on the border of the brown and red zones on the (unitless?) pressure gauge.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                        Originally posted by TripleShot link=1214886480/20#20 date=1215587237
                        Just wondering what setting you have your grinder on ? I have the EM0450 grinder but cant seem to find the ideal setting to prevent a gush.
                        My grinder settings range from 12 to 16 depending on the type of beans im using. In my experience (i dont have much so dont count on it too much), almost stale supermarket beans tend to require finer settings. Very fresh beans, the ones that have a nice oily sheen to them, require much coarser grinds. Its almost like they compact differently when tamped.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                          Originally posted by reubster link=1214886480/0#19 date=1215586549
                          Ezralimm

                          This is an Interesting Post/Journey you are taking us on.

                          Ive been there myself with pressurised baskets and came to the conclusion that at best:  the resultant espresso might look 70% as good as a real one and only  taste 10% as good....ie you get some of the character of the beans, but the resultant mouthfeel is very thin and watery. Espresso is as much if not more about mouthfeel.

                          A 20Kg tamp is higher than the norm [13.5Kg].
                          Greg Pullman did a very interesting study of tamp pressure, in essence anything over 15Kg has little or no effect, in other words once a certain "compactedness" has been reached, thats it.
                          I believe it is also possible to dislodge/crack the puck with too much pressure.
                          Nevertheless, as you rightly point out consistant tamping pressure is critical.

                          I agree with the others that fresh coffee is paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.

                          BTW Those sunbeam grinders are reknowned for producing inconsistant grinds and explain exactly what you reported.
                          I should know, Ive owned 2 of then.
                          There are several work arounds you should check out

                          I agree with the others that fresh coffee is totally paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.
                          I so feel ya. I guess all my efforts to be anal with the pressurized baskets had made me very in tune with the gross variables (dose, tamp, pre-warm, color, viscosity) in making espresso. Walking the fine line between choking the pressurized basket and making an acceptable shot was somewhat of a challenge. Now that im using a proper machine with non-pressurized baskets, its relatively a breeze to produce much better results.

                          The pressurized basket system took me an average of 30min to make a simple acceptable latte... due to constant risk of choking, the anal-ness needed to get the dose/tamp just right to produce something reminiscent of espresso. Muddy pucks and cleanup in general was also a big inconvienience.

                          Now it takes less than 5 min to do the same thing... and does not require the same anal-ness.


                          Thanks for the suggestion, I will experiment with tamp pressure this afternoon.

                          Regarding the grinder, Ive found it acceptable, so long as I make sure that the grounds (from a prev grind setting) were cleared from the insides of the grinder. Youre right... it isnt very consistant. I weigh my tamps and never froth and pour at the same time as my eye is always on the pour and the clock. No matter how i try to standardize my technique, the time taken before pale streaks start to form does seem to vary by about 3-4s between shots on the same grinder setting.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                            Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1214886480/20#23 date=1215603946
                            Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1214886480/20#22 date=1215600644
                            ezralimm,

                            I dont agree with pre weighing the beans before grinding. That is one of the most inconsistent methods I could ever think of. Try grinding by volume and using the collapse method. It takes a lot less time. When you get towards the end of the coffee grinding, you get what is called the pop-corn effect. The coffee gets coarser and coarser because there is no weight on top of the beans. Its very noticeable and why I think it is one of the most inconsistent methods of espresso preparation at home out there.
                            Agreed Dave,

                            I think the quicker this method dies, the better. Consistent popcorning lacks consistency
                            Ooh, that might explain the slight differences between pours im getting.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                              Ezra, my offer for some home roasted beans to try out against the ones youre getting from the deli is still open if youre interested. I work 5 minutes away from Monash Clayton (Mulgrave) so its not a problem for me to drop them off to you. From the description of your room, Id have to guess youre in one of the Halls of Residence and if it is, I sympathise with your lack of space.
                              Have fun with your 6910.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Pic Guide To Getting The Best Out Of Budget Eq

                                [quote ] This is an Interesting Post/Journey you are taking us on.

                                Ive been there myself with pressurised baskets and came to the conclusion that at best:  the resultant espresso might look 70% as good as a real one and only  taste 10% as good....ie you get some of the character of the beans, but the resultant mouthfeel is very thin and watery. Espresso is as much if not more about mouthfeel.

                                A 20Kg tamp is higher than the norm [13.5Kg].
                                Greg Pullman did a very interesting study of tamp pressure, in essence anything over 15Kg has little or no effect, in other words once a certain "compactedness" has been reached, thats it.
                                I believe it is also possible to dislodge/crack the puck with too much pressure.
                                Nevertheless, as you rightly point out consistant tamping pressure is critical.

                                I agree with the others that fresh coffee is paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.

                                BTW Those sunbeam grinders are reknowned for producing inconsistant grinds and explain exactly what you reported.
                                I should know, Ive owned 2 of then.
                                There are several work arounds you should check out

                                I agree with the others that fresh coffee is totally paramount and that you really need to stick with the non pressurised basket.[/QUOTE]

                                Have to agree with the comments above, but do not let any one put you off your voyage of discovery.. Rather learn from it and take on board what others have also found.

                                I had a system not unlike yours and my three major points/steps forward wer;

                                1: Good quality / fresh beans
                                2: Non pressurised baskets.. There are a number that will fit the Sunbeam
                                3: Grinder..

                                With these under ya belt, new paths will open up for you.

                                Enjoy, and remember a good coffee is defined by the consumer... I have some friends who would never drink any thing else but Pablo (Instant) and if that is what they are happy with; what gives me the right to tell them there wrong.

                                However I always offer a REAL coffee when they come over :-) One day their tasts might change :-)

                                Comment

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