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  • Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

    The boiler in my S26 seems to be well and truly over-filling. Can someone please advise what the correct level should be?

    Regards
    Glenn

  • #2
    Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

    Originally posted by 1F2D2F3E2928130F233B4C0 link=1254876739/0#0 date=1254876739
    The boiler in my S26 seems to be well and truly over-filling.  Can someone please advise what the correct level should be?

    Regards
    Glenn
    More info needed ?

    1: What water are you using ?

    As I understand it it uses two level probes...  

    Thus either your using RO water, the Probes are scaled up or the Control cct is faulty..

    With out knowing more about YOU, Your equipment, its history and exactly what you mean by  OVER filling...  It is hard to make an exact call.

    My guess would be RO water or Scale in teh first instance... Unless some one has been playing and or a wiring fault..

    Control CCT would be my last suspect.

    10 - 4

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

      A/M,

      Yes, unlike most coffee machines the Rancilio only has one level probe. When water is below the level of the probe the pump and water inlet solenoid are switched on for a set time. By changing the pump/ inlet solenoid on time, you set the water level.

      Regards
      Glenn

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

        Originally posted by 3200021304053E220E16610 link=1254876739/2#2 date=1254880662
        A/M,

        Yes, unlike most coffee machines the Rancilio only has one level probe.  When water is below the level of the probe the pump and water inlet solenoid are switched on for a set time.  By changing the pump/ inlet solenoid on time, you set the water level.

        Regards
        Glenn
        are you sure, i thought if the probe was "out of the water" it just makes the pump run till it feels the water and stops. did not think it was a time thing?

        questions
        are the wires all connected properly? check earth wires as well.....
        are (have) you testing for any circut on the probe with it "out of water" etc
        is it stopping filling at all? or just runs and runs till flows out antivac etc
        check.

        you need to cover elements + some but need head space for steam

        provide us with more info

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

          Originally posted by 5A686A7B6C6D564A667E090 link=1254876739/2#2 date=1254880662
          A/M,

          Yes, unlike most coffee machines the Rancilio only has one level probe.  When water is below the level of the probe the pump and water inlet solenoid are switched on for a set time.  By changing the pump/ inlet solenoid on time, you set the water level.

          Regards
          Glenn
          Interesting as the cct I have access to shows the 2, but I forgot that the return is the boiler...

          Still acts in the same way.. Open CCT detected.. Pump on... With minerals in the water when it reaches the probe the cct detects and a delay is implemented and the pump shuts off after a pre determined time.. 8-)

          If no minerals (RO water) or a dirty probe or broken cct... Then the pubp will run and over fill as it never sensors that there is water in teh tank..

          As you did not provide further info... As to what is going on and only a through away line - as to overfilling - I can still only go with my first comments..

          If the pump is not shutting off; then = Water / Probe / Wiring and last of all the control cct

          If it is shutting off, but late then again = Water / Probe / Wiring and last of all the control cct

          The condition of the water and probe have a direct impact on what the system measures and is set to detect as water...

          BUT... I have been known to get remote diags wrong... I guess it depends on having all teh facts

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

            I can see the water level when I take out the ant-suction valve. It is up the bottom of the boiler head, ie the bottom of the anti-suction valve thread. The electronic water control unit certainly turns off the pump and inlet valve after a given time.

            I have cleaned the sole probe. It wasnt very dirty anyhow.

            Just using plain old Brisbane tap water - nothing fancy for me.

            Regards
            Glenn

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

              Originally posted by 0C3E3C2D3A3B001C30285F0 link=1254876739/5#5 date=1254882774
              I can see the water level when I take out the ant-suction valve. It is up the bottom of the boiler head, ie the bottom of the anti-suction valve thread.  The electronic water control unit certainly turns off the pump and inlet valve after a given time.

              I have cleaned the sole probe.  It wasnt very dirty anyhow.

              Just using plain old Brisbane tap water - nothing fancy for me.

              Regards
              Glenn
              If ya on teh North side I can maybe have a look and take some measurements - After 2:30pm.. Your call - PM me ya details.

              AM

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                Thanks A/M for your offer but on southside.

                Regards
                Glenn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                  do you think that the probe is "working" but is broken

                  eg, its reading further up the probe than normal?

                  this is going to sound dodgy..... and possibly dangerous??
                  AngerManagement may be able to answer
                  i dont know if this is possible????

                  but could you fashion a probe from some wire / metal skewer, insulate with a cork (or whatever) join it to the wire and lower it into the boiler.
                  then we can tell if the probe is working??

                  i would be doing this when its cold not HOT!!



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                    Originally posted by 4674766770714A567A62150 link=1254876739/7#7 date=1254883403
                    Thanks A/M for your offer but on southside.

                    Regards
                    Glenn
                    Ya can drive cant ya :-)

                    Originally posted by 78747D707079150 link=1254876739/8#8 date=1254883777
                    o you think that the probe is "working" but is broken

                    eg, its reading further up the probe than normal?
                    Possible, but these probes are usually SS so dont suffer from the type of failing that your suggesting..

                    Only way for sure is with a meter and to measure.. It could be any of teh connections going high or a wire that is going high or the controller..

                    (With the right tools ya could take the CA input to ground, but in effect to test correctly etc you are working LIVE and this is a NO NO from a safety point as well as all teh Acts and Legislation, without the right control measures in place)

                    Hands on and a meter...  Problem is that Home visits cost $$$ and to drop it in say to  Barazi Bezzera Coffee Machines (South Side) will / may cost $$ but will also take some time; depending on their work load.

                    Thus HOW long do you want to be without Coffee    :-[

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                      Ive just stoked it up and marked the position of the water level control potentiometer in the GICAR. I took out the anti-suction valve and ran water out of the group head. Then I measured the height of the water in the boiler with a straw.

                      Then turned the potentiometer to the minimum and repeated the process. Did it again with the pot at the other extreme position. In each case when it refilled after draining water from the group head, the level in the boiler remained the same. Im starting to think that I was wrong (again), i.e. the potentiometer may be controlling the sensitivity of the probe to different water conductivity rather than the water level.

                      I noticed as it was coming up to pressure that some water came out of the over pressure valve on top of the boiler and a little out of the group solenoid valve. I know nothing about these machines but I would have thought that this should not happen when it is not even at operating pressure. Can you please comment on this? Also what is the purpose of the drain out of the group solenoid valve? Under what conditions should fluid escape?

                      I am starting to think that the over-filling problem is now cured now that I have cleaned and replaced the "O" ring in the water inlet expansion valve. But early days yet.

                      Regards
                      Glenn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                        you lost me....

                        i did not know you could control the " water timer / or sensitivity" on a gicar board. i thought they were simple ON / OFF circuits for water fill when it hits the probe it stops.....

                        seems crazy that it is stopping filling but only at the top?

                        can you remove the fill sensor, take some pictures and post them up
                        take some pictures of the top of the boiler and whole machine.
                        visuals may help us?

                        water coming out the over pressure is weird, i thought they were "sealed" unless "overpressure"
                        water coming out the anti-vac is wrong but will happen as your too full

                        the water probe looks just like part 612601 right?
                        how far pushed in is it (amount of metal in the boiler)
                        http://www.coffeeparts.com/rancilio/rancilio-spare-parts-1.html

                        the drain from the GHeah is to allow pressure to release after you stop the shot, this stops you opening up the Ghead and getting covered in coffee muck. the solenoid operates this its often called a 3way valve

                        have you hit it with a hammer yet....?
                        leeham

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                          [QUOTE=46696062754A66696660626A626973070 link=1254876739/6#6 date=1254883265]
                          Originally posted by 0C3E3C2D3A3B001C30285F0 link=1254876739/5#5 date=1254882774
                          I can see the water level when I take out the ant-suction valve. It is up the bottom of the boiler head, ie the bottom of the anti-suction valve thread.  The electronic water control unit certainly turns off the pump and inlet valve after a given time.

                          I have cleaned the sole probe.  It wasnt very dirty anyhow.

                          Just using plain old Brisbane tap water - nothing fancy for me.

                          Regards
                          Glenn
                          Hi Glenn
                          I have been going through exactly the same problem with the S26 at work. Its been keeping me really busy!! On our machine, the problem was quite intermittant and seemed to be temperature related, i.e. when it was hot the fault would occur more frequently. The fill solenoid would click on and off but sometimes it would not flick off before reaching the anti-vac and it also sprayed out the safety valve and sent the pressure guage to about 3 bar (mains water pressure here). I also cleaned the level probe and checked all the wiring connections. I did find the earth point brass bolt was rusted, but after replacing this the problem was still there. Finally I have removed the electronic auto fill box (i believe this is the GICAR you are referring to) and found that the 5A relay had contacts that were fried. On our machine the relay (inside the GICAR black casing) has a clear casing and you could clearly see the charred contacts and plastic surrounds. Obviously underrated for the job. This relay switches the water fill solenoid on and off and is a prime suspect in the fault. I am currently waiting for a new relay to arrive and with some help from an electronics expert here we will replace it and let you know if that solves the problem. Sorry to post before we know for sure that the problem is solved, but the coincidence in our faulty machines is pretty interesting i think!
                          Cheers Pier.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                            Hi Pier,

                            I am not experienced with these machines but I am in electronics. By all means replace the relay in the GICAR water level control module. I cannot see how this is going to decrease the height of the water in the boiler. If, for argument sake, the contacts were totally burnt out, and this is highly unlikely, it would mean that no current could flow to the inlet water valve solenoid and also to the pump. In other words, burnt out contacts would result in lower rather than higher water level. The electrolytic capacitors viz the 1 microfarad one affect the water level so I would replace these with 105 degree C components.

                            For fault finding when the machine is overflowing, first turn it off (remove the plug) but leave the water mains pressure hose connected. Then disconnect the copper pipe on the outlet side of the water valve to the boiler and the pipe from the expansion valve just before the inlet valve. I think, as I did, you will soon find where the excess water is coming from. In my case it was the expansion valve. The main problem was the valve seat of the expansion valve had a lot of scale on it. It took quite a while to clean it with crocus paper. Also replaced the "O" ring. The water level in the boiler is now about 20 mm below the bottom of the anti suction valve threaded hole.

                            In addition the central rubber sleeve of anti-suction valve has had it and we are in the throes of sourcing a new one.

                            Please keep across your progress.

                            By the way I now believe that there are only two ways to control the height of the water in the boiler:
                            (1) Changing the value of the resistor in the RC charging circuit in the GICAR
                            (2) changing the inlet water reduction valve setting, ie the valve prior to the pump.

                            Regards
                            Glenn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Rancilio S26 -Boiler Water Level

                              Originally posted by 4674766770714A567A62150 link=1254876739/13#13 date=1255500107
                              By the way I now believe that there are only two ways to control the height of the water in the boiler:
                              (1)Changing the value of the resistor in the RC charging circuit in the GICAR
                              (2)changing the inlet water reduction valve setting, ie the valve prior to the pump.
                              sorry I ahvent followed the discussion, but dont you just adjust hte height of the probe into the boiler???

                              Comment

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