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  • PID with pre infusion

    I am looking to build or purchase a PID with pre-infusion capabilities
    Its to be fitted to my BZ40
    Most PID Temp control kits are made specifically for the Silvia

    1] Any electronically minded CSers know much about the pre infusion factor
    2] And will it work with a plumbed in machine that uses a commercial pump

    I feel it will improve my coffee making experience on the commercial group head the BZ40 uses

    Ohh and am I asking for to much if I want the lights to be in Blue because its cool looking   ;D

    KK

  • #2
    Re: PID with pre infusion

    A PID is just a thermostat.. a smart one, but still just a thermostat. it replaces the function of the pressurestat or a button thermostatic switch. Preinfusion is a function of the machines design, and afaik, unrelated to the function of the PID.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PID with pre infusion

      Randy, you can buy PID kits from a vendor in the USA that has PID functions, steam control AND a built in additional timer controller that can cycle the pump on and off very briefly to simulate pre-infusion.

      This PID controller kit has all the features of our other listings titled "PID temperature control kit for Rancilio Silvia, Deluxe", with the addition of  steam temperature control and extraction timer that can be programmed with pre-infusion  function.

      The pre-infusion is achieved by pumping a small amount of water into the coffee, holding off the pump for a second to let water soak in, then starting the 25 second pumping. This will prevent abrupt high pressure water on the dry coffee powder that can create some fast flow channel to ruin the brewing. It will improve the consistency of the brewing even if you didnt tamp the coffee perfectly. The extraction timer contains three segments: pre-infusion pulse (Tp), soak (Td), and brew (Tb). Each segment can be set by user with 0.1second resolution.  When the ">" key is pressed, the controller starts the brewing sequence automatically.  The pump can be stopped at any time by pressing the ">" key a second time. This feature allows you to operate the brew pump manually, with the timer as a reference. User can also bypass the timer to use switch on the machine for manual controlling the brewing process.

      The steam temperature control allows the boiler temperature to be held at tighter range during frothing. User operation is the same as regular machine; no extra buttons are needed for frothing. When the steam switch is turned on, the on/off temperature of the heater is controlled with 1 degree (F or C), as compared with original thermostats >10C (or 20F). With this level of temperature control, you will no longer need to surf the temperature for frothing, because the heater will kick on much sooner than the original thermostat.  The on/off temperature can also be adjusted by the user.
      This kit will take roughly 15-30 more minutes to install because of the extra steps required to access the steam switch. The installation is completely reversible if you ever want to sell the machine or send it for servicing.

      This kit fits all Silvia models, including the 2009 V3. However, if you have a model made between 2000 and July 2006, we can supply the kit with a screw type RTD sensor for better performance. To obtain the screw type RTD sensor, please select the "Screw RTD" at the bottom of this page.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PID with pre infusion

        Originally posted by 1F3D3B20272D3B480 link=1270127553/2#2 date=1270143815
        Randy, you can buy PID kits from a vendor in the USA that has PID functions, steam control AND a built in additional timer controller that can cycle the pump on and off very briefly to simulate pre-infusion.
        I know Jim and his kits (helped him with some editing of the first installation guide as well as one of the early reviews of his kits is still on my website). Quality kits and a quality guy! Didnt know that his kits now had the preinfusion function...
        I stand corrected.
        First time! ;D

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PID with pre infusion

          Sounds like the Auber PID, the "preinfusion" function just turns the pump off briefly, usually referred to as prewetting the puck.
          Sounds like you need to install something like a bypass solenoid to let mains pressure do the preinfusion.
          I think I have something on it I can look for it if you wish.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PID with pre infusion

            I just searched Auber PID, and had a read
            Yes they do it for the Silvia

            I suppose I could program one of the buttons on my machine for pre-infusion if possible to do it for such a short period and just fit a regular PID for temp control

            KK

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PID with pre infusion

              With the Auber PI the 3 way solenoid opens when the pump pauses, so no pressure builds up, it doesnt really PI it can only wet the puck or excess pressure just vents out through the 3 way.
              I went into PI when I modified the Silvia and ended up fitting a solenoid/OPV arrangement I find it works quite well, in your case you just need a bypass solenoid though I have no idea how to work it in with the volumetrics.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PID with pre infusion

                Can i ask.....why KK, why do you want pre-infusion and a PID on your boiler? or is it simply for bling? ;D

                [edit]Sorry ill clarify a bit, just out of interest, have you done any temp testing on your brew water? just wondering what the current variation is in boiler temp.....

                That being said, i love PIDS and SSRs ;D so cool![/edit]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PID with pre infusion

                  Originally posted by 494D6B727277687F701E0 link=1270127553/7#7 date=1270169614
                  Can i ask.....why KK, why do you want pre-infusion and a PID on your boiler? or is it simply for bling?
                  I am looking at PIDs for practical reasons
                  I love this machine but with the 2 x 1450Watt elements it needs to be tamed
                  with a PID for home use

                  As for the bling - thats where the blue lights come in

                  I may ask Bezzera if the PID from the BZ07 can be fitted to the BZ40 with a little wiring change

                  KK

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PID with pre infusion

                    Originally posted by 62464F4F4C4C7662465A4446290 link=1270127553/8#8 date=1270170483
                    I love this machine but with the 2 x 1450Watt elements it needs to be tamed
                    You could just disconnect one of the elements KK.... Thats what a lot of owners do 8-)

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PID with pre infusion

                      Sounds like you need to install something like a bypass solenoid to let mains pressure do the preinfusion
                      OK forget this, I found the thread I was looking for and it doesnt involve adding a bypass solenoid rather it sounds like it just involves opening the brew solenoid to allow line pressure through before the pump starts, but dont take my interpretation as gospel the babelfish is hard to comprehend.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PID with pre infusion

                        KK on a side note, update ya sig, youve got ya little beauty now

                        maybe contact PIDKits KK, jims a top bloke who will not hesitate in giving advice on alternate applications.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PID with pre infusion

                          Originally posted by 5875717D701C0 link=1270127553/9#9 date=1270188269
                          You could just disconnect one of the elements KK.... Thats what a lot of owners do  8-)

                          Mal.  
                          I contemplated this Mal before I put in a dedicated 15 amp power line
                          I still want it to heat up quick

                          However the next best thing may be a 3 way switch

                          OFF
                          ON with both elements working
                          ON with one element working

                          KK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PID with pre infusion

                            Originally posted by 0C2821212222180C28342A28470 link=1270127553/12#12 date=1270191723
                            Originally posted by 5875717D701C0 link=1270127553/9#9 date=1270188269
                            You could just disconnect one of the elements KK.... Thats what a lot of owners do  8-)

                            Mal.  
                            I contemplated this Mal before I put in a dedicated 15 amp power line
                            I still want it to heat up quick

                            However the next best thing may be a 3 way switch

                            OFF
                            ON with both elements working
                            ON with one element working


                            KK
                            NO... Not so simple grass hopper..

                            TWO switches. Off - ON

                            Linked, so that Switch 1 is Element 1 and Switch 2 is element 2... But Switch two is linked to Switch 1.

                            Thus configure is:

                            Sw1 = Off (All OFF)

                            Sw2 = ON or Off = OFF

                            Sw1 = On = One element

                            Sw2 = Off = One element

                            Sw2 = ON = Two elements



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PID with pre infusion

                              Originally posted by 547B72706758747B74727078707B61150 link=1270127553/13#13 date=1270206568
                              TWO switches.Off - ON

                              Linked, so that Switch 1 is Element 1 and Switch 2 is element 2... But Switch two is linked to Switch 1.
                              Will a similar switch like the one you are planing to use on the Della Corte work ?

                              e.g. keep the current on off switch and use the new switch for the elements

                              KK

                              Comment

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