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  • #16
    Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

    They are all grey imports maheel.

    Some guy is buying them from the same bloke in Italy somewhere....

    Dodgy as... :

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    • #17
      Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

      Originally posted by 32212E2725242F27400 link=1308581681/0#0 date=1308581681
      Freight and insurance $271.98
      Originally posted by 32212E2725242F27400 link=1308581681/0#0 date=1308581681
      The machine arrived 4 days after I ordered it, in perfect condition.(courier was DHL express)
      Hi Jack110,
      Thank you for posting the information. It was very informative. Can you provide a bit more information regarding the freight and insurance. It seems quite reasonable.Was it on a weight basis? If so what was the total weight of your package? Was it door to door?
      I do not see anything wrong with importing yourself, provided you are well aware of the risks. I am considering importing some electrical goods as well. One of the items is an espresso machine, but unlike yours, is not available in Australia.

      All the issues raised so far are valid and worth considering when wishing to buy from overseas source. Those who have bought the Quest roaster have also had to take similar risks.
      I hope you enjoy your machine, they are nice and shiny

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

        sheesh just plug it in and use it!!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

          Originally posted by 3A3D28272A490 link=1308581681/16#16 date=1308643806
          Originally posted by 32212E2725242F27400 link=1308581681/0#0 date=1308581681
          Freight and insurance $271.98
          Originally posted by 32212E2725242F27400 link=1308581681/0#0 date=1308581681
          The machine arrived 4 days after I ordered it, in perfect condition.(courier was DHL express)
          Hi Jack110,
          Thank you for posting the information. It was very informative. Can you provide a bit more information regarding the freight and insurance. It seems quite reasonable.Was it on a weight basis? If so what was the total weight of your package? Was it door to door?
          I do not see anything wrong with importing yourself, provided you are well aware of the risks. I am considering importing some electrical goods as well. One of the items is an espresso machine, but unlike yours, is not available in Australia.

          All the issues raised so far are valid and worth considering when wishing to buy from overseas source. Those who have bought the Quest roaster have also had to take similar risks.
          I hope you enjoy your machine, they are nice and shiny
          Hi,
          Weight was said to be 29kg but I know nothing about how the charges were calculated....DHL express was the freight company, it was door to door, trackable, and the speed was astounding.I live in a small country town in Western Australia, 4 days door to door to me from Italy....Insurance cover was only for $600- standard, I left it at that as on balance I figured stuff doesnt get lost/broken very often...and it didnt(get lost or broken)

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

            Originally posted by 10030C0507060D05620 link=1308581681/19#19 date=1308656738
            Insurance cover was only for $600- standard, I left it at that as on balance I figured stuff doesnt get lost/broken very often...and it didnt(get lost or broken) 
            You are one VERY, VERY LUCKY owner Jack. I reckon you just played Russian roulette with 5 loaded chambers and won.

            Ask the same question of companies like mine or importers and we will all have multiple tales of theft and damage to individual machines, pallets of gear and whole container loads. Just a couple of weeks ago, Attilio and Dennis were on a hat trick of damaged machines with the aptly named TNT.

            Giotto packaging is very fragile and we will not ship one around the corner without a protective skid. Even on skids, once Aussie freight companies have dealt with them, we find we do extra work on about 1/3 of the machines we receive as the become very noisy due to touching bits. The internal tolerances are tiny in this machine.

            The machine generally cubes up to around 50kg on a pallet.

            Chris


            Comment


            • #21
              Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

              Originally posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1308581681/15#15 date=1308643596
              They are all grey imports maheel.
              Originally posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1308581681/15#15 date=1308643596
              Dodgy as...
              IMHO, dodgy is promoting anti-competitive behaviour, such as unfair/anti-competitive restrictions on parallel importing. I would be surprised if the ACCC did not allow parallel importing, subject to reasonable restrictions to recognise intellectual property rights (copyright etc)


              I dont see ECA complaining - seems they are quite capable of providing good quality products and services in a competitive market, for an appropriate fee.

              As I see it, the OP imported a product quite legally, with their eyes open to the potential risks and opened a potentially useful thread listing the benefits and risks associated with this course of action.
              Most people would appreciate a relatively unbiased and invective free report on import/export experiences of coffee equipment. I would

              There are actually business opportunities in supporting people like this as we move forwards to a less restrictive global market.

              jack110 - if you have problems getting support for this and want to pay, maybe we could work something out - I am sure I could track down one of the 7 or less (according to Chris) people that can modify the HX circuit to nail the right brew water temperature shot after shot and get them to do the work


              FYI, I still believe it is worth having the machine professionally tuned, unless you want to invest in a scace (or equivalent) and the time to do it yourself. Much as I might disagree with Chris on some things, I do agree with many of his technical comments.

              I do hope this post doesnt see me and/or Chris dismembered. :-/

              Sometimes robust debate is good...



              Comment


              • #22
                Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                Gday Jack001....

                If you do nothing else, the very least I would recommend is that you get the machine certified by an appropriately authorised electrical engineering firm, otherwise, any consequential damages resulting from any failure attributed to the new Giotto, will not be covered by any insurer....

                Best play it safe....

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                  Hello Who me?

                  I am just wondering if you would mind clarifying your last post.

                  Could you outline for us any conversations you have had with ECA today and perhaps also fill us in on your industry background and experience with the Giotto and Giotto EVO? I have spoken with ECA and sell the Giotto. I know my way around them pretty well.

                  Also, could you please explain what isnt dodgy about buying from an overseas retailer who is not backed by factory warranty as he is selling out of his country and then onselling non-compliant machines in retail quantities here?

                  Im a tad confused by your comments as if I was doing it, Id consider it dodgy

                  "You might also have a read over my response to Jetblacks earlier post :

                  As stated in my first post, I wish Jack good luck, but facts remain facts.

                  We need both sides of this discussion so that members can come to their own conclusions. What we dont need is finger pointing and accusations.

                  Cheers

                  Chris

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                    Many thanks who me, I will take you up on that in need.
                    I will admit I posted my experience with some trepidation, but I felt that some balance in the discussion couldnt be all bad.
                    My choice was to import, or buy a lesser machine locally as I had set myself a $ limit.....Im now hooked on this whole coffee thing, largely because the evo is such a stunner.I will now spend lots of money over the coming years and am already looking at lever machines.Some money will be spent locally, some maybe import...who knows, its a global world.
                    What Im trying to say is....if it takes a grey import to get someone involved in this pursuit well thats another person involved, who has money to spend locally also...
                    Internet sales of all goods are, and will continue to, explode exponentially and I think who me makes a very valid point, opportunities will be there for all.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                      Thanks Jack, from someone that was (never know, it might still happen if what Im buying doesnt work out) looking at importing as well, its great to be able to see the actual costs for everything else.

                      As someone that doesnt have to worry about finding an electrical/electronics engineer we dont have a worry about importing anything we want 8-) and for us, who import goods monthly, this isnt even something wed see as a risk.

                      We often find that the overseas companies are so much easier to deal with than ones in Australia, generalising here, not speaking about coffee people, they have better knowledge and will go to all ends to make sure that we are happy with what we get

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                        Originally posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1308581681/23#23 date=1308660702
                        I am just wondering if you would mind clarifying your last post.
                        Glad to.
                        Originally posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1308581681/23#23 date=1308660702
                        Could you outline for us any conversations you have had with ECA today and perhaps also fill us in on your industry background and experience with the Giotto and Giotto EVO? I have spoken with ECA and sell the Giotto. I know my way around them pretty well.
                        Not spoken to them at all. I simply noted they have not complained, or are you acting on their behalf in complaining about parallel importing? Full disclosure please if so.

                        I have over twenty years experience in customer service and support, including product support internationally. I have worked for manufacturers supporting clients directly, indirectly through resellers and managing relationships with parallel importers of equipment (some legit, some not so).
                        I have no specific experience with the product and my comments are of a general nature, not specific to one machine or industry sector. It just so happens this thread relates to one product - I believe general business practices deserve examining rather than a single instance.

                        Originally posted by 6B5E5354607C5059595A5A3F0 link=1308581681/23#23 date=1308660702
                        Also, could you please explain what isnt dodgy about buying from an overseas retailer who is not backed by factory warranty as he is selling out of his country and then onselling non-compliant machines in retail quantities here?
                        Your previous post simply mentioned grey (aka parallel) imports as being dogdy as.

                        You are now adding more info and expect me to justify my argument despite moving the goalposts.

                        I still say there is nothing wrong with parallel importing as such and trying to restrict it is anti-competitive.

                        If someone is misrepresenting their product, that is a different matter and I am not going to justify that.




                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                          Originally posted by 5E5658505248485458503B0 link=1308581681/26#26 date=1308693562
                          If someone is misrepresenting their product, that is a different matter and I am not going to justify that.
                          I agree. In the case of the cheap grey (parallel) imports, the vendor has not mentioned that they are not Australian stock. I know of a case where a member who tried to sell a very young self import (unsatisfactory?) and attempted the same thing. I think the item was pulled and then listed on "the bay"

                          Id guess that a potential buyer might not know to ask and therefore receive something quite different to what s/he thought was purchased and that is where I see the problem.

                          I see that this will cause headaches in a whole heap of ways for ECA when things go wrong- and they ultimately do with some machines. Both importer and repairer are well within their rights to refuse service- but Jack has already acknowledged that. I did speak with the CEO of ECA yesterday. As the Rocket appointed exclusive importer, they are rightly irritated.
                          Its that in time, Rocket may plug this hole by by restricting supply to importers selling out of their country. Any manufacturer to the importer and purchaser is voided in these circumstances, but we here all know that. 

                          The key issue with price is that in Europe and the USA, importer is reseller and also repairer. All is well. The model falls down in Australia. In Australia we have big distances and as a result, the model degrades as buyers traditionally want local service. This is a frequent question asked by our clients. Is a Perth buyer prepared to return a machine to Sydney for warranty work?

                          To do this, you add the reseller/repairer level and they need a margin too. If the importer moves say $1M in stock at a time, he also deserves fair reward for the risks. How does one make a model which works to provide the services that most of us require on big purchases?  :-?

                          Im glad that we agree on the technical who me, as I initially thought you were questioning this retailer/repairers knowledge of the product and of Australian spec.

                          Cheers

                          Chris 

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                            So once again we were in agreement without realising it. Just goes to show it is often worth restating things differently to make ourselves understood.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                              Originally posted by 636B656D6F757569656D060 link=1308581681/28#28 date=1308700056
                              So once again we were in agreement without realising it. Just goes to show it is often worth restating things differently to make ourselves understood.
                              Too right wm  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: importing rocket giotto evoluzione

                                [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1308703940/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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