Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

[Sparky]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial


Ive pulled my pressurestat down to 0.9 bar for the same reason. At 1.1 bar the stream was throwing the milk out of the jug!

Now for a new pump.....

[robusto]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Yes, a new pump. That was certainly bad luck, Sparky. Apparently they cant be adequately repaired -- there will always be some bearing noise.

But your problem is a pump AND motor, correct? That must hurt.

--Robusto

[Sparky]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial


Nope. Just the pump. They can be repaired by Procon. However this service is in the US and freight would probably make this option unviable.

I have quite a few spare motors, so thered need to be a major catastrophe before I hit that problem.

[Curmudgeon]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Procon espresso machine pumps are not repaired, they are gutted and have a set of complete new inards installed into the original body. The original serial number on the body is stamped out and replaced by a new one.

This is an exchange replacement pump service and because you are essentially providing them with your old pump body into which they place a new pump, the cost is a little less than purchasing a complete new pump ie, save the cost of the body.

The service is provided in Australia as it is in other parts of the world.

Procon can only do this with their own bodies, any other brand pump is only good for brass scrap.

[Sparky]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Procon espresso machine pumps are not repaired, they are gutted and have a set of complete new inards installed into the original body. The original serial number on the body is stamped out and replaced by a new one.

This is an exchange replacement pump service and because you are essentially providing them with your old pump body into which they place a new pump, the cost is a little less than purchasing a complete new pump ie, save the cost of the body.

The service is provided in Australia as it is in other parts of the world.

Procon can only do this with their own bodies, any other brand pump is only good for brass scrap.

Thats very interesting. Who does the Procon repair in Australia (I have 3 dead Procon pumps). The cheapest price I can get a Procon pump for is $220 shipped to me. Id prefer to pay less given the amount of brass I have lying around.

I want to stay with Procon because of the 1/2 NPT threads and the ability to self-prime and draw water from a tank.

Cheers,

Mark.

[robusto]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

I was speaking to Pedro from Coffeeparts yesterday about pressure gauges and the subject of Procon pumps came up.

He says the difference between a reconditioned and new pump is about $20. He also says there will always be some bearing noise in the remanufactured article because its very difficult to align the bearing properly.

He might be worth a call.

--Robusto

[Sparky]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial


I bit the bullet and ordered a new pump from Coffeeparts. Even with shipping the price was still better than I could get around here. So maybe tomorrow night I will fire up the beast once more...

[robusto]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Sometimes, the most expensive course is also the most direct. Looking forward to the the outcome. (This comes from someone who took his pressure gauge apart some 6 times at least, and still could not bring himself to pronounce it dead, then used a wire twist tie to resurrect it)

-Robusto

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

there will always be some bearing noise in the remanufactured article because its very difficult to align the bearing properly.

This may well be so but remember that is only talking about the pump by itself. Consider that different machines sound different in toto while theyre running, due to however many different variables including vibrations etc. so this has to be taken in context.

I can tell you IME it han never happened that we have fitted an exchange remanufactured procon pump and ever worried about its noise or performance. As far as we are concerned, its like fitting any brand new pump. It either works, or ir doesnt, and it either sounds "normal" or within normal limits, or it doesnt.

In addition, it is not uncommon to fit brand new pumps and find they make a noise in any case..... so which is likely to be noisier, a brand new pump or a newly remanufactured exchange procon pump????????????? Better get out the probability tables & start calculating standard deviations and asking for a decibel level spec. hehe.

So personally, I dont think this is any kind of significant issue and should be laid to rest before...we end up with an avalanche of people buying new or remanufactured pumps, asking questions about "bearing (or other) noise" and making the choice dependent upon insignificant details.

If I need a replacement pump and have a seized procon that can be used as an "exchange" and save $30.00 into the bargain, I do it every time.

Regards,
FC.

[Dimal]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

He also says there will always be some bearing noise in the remanufactured article because its very difficult to align the bearing properly.

Notwithstanding the good advice offered by FC, it might be worth the effort Sparky (since you have several "spare" pumps on hand) to canvas the various bearing specialist stores and try to get hold of a suitable "Self Aligning Bearing" for this type of duty. Would have to be a whole lot cheaper than buying new pumps and then at least, you would have a supply of known good pumps from which to draw on should the need arise . Seems like a worthwhile thing to do...

Mal.

[Sparky]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Mal, there are some things that are not worth the time and effort. These pumps (as Im sure youre aware) have to be put together with high tolerences. There are three bearings inside, only one of which is a standard type sealed bearing. The other two I havent seen before and are probably made by Procon for the task as they also seal the rotor chamber and obviously have to withstand 15bar or more. Bottom line is it looks like hard work to me, especially without the correct tools for the job.

Besides I have the new pump fitted and running smoothly without any squeaks. It has much less bearing resistance than the other pump. But I must also fess up that when I removed the offending pump I found that I hadnt tightened the clamp ring properly... Oops. That was most likely the cause of the motor stalling, as the pump and motor were misaligned. After removing the pump I found it still turned and didnt seem to have a seized bearing. However, this pump is a very high capacity pump, about twice the capacity usually fitted to coffee machines. Therefore the tightness of the bearing is may be related to this higher capacity (eg. larger seal contact area). As the motor in the Pav is only a small 100 W variety, it is better to run a pump with a lower capacity. The larger 160 W motors can handle the larger capacity pump without a problem and I have a few of them kicking around. So that leaves me with two dead pumps. I will investigate the option of getting them refurbed sometime later..... when I can afford it.

Thanks anyway Mal.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Dimal]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Ahh, sorry Mark....

I thought you had a pretty full-on workshop at your disposal. I wasnt really intimating that you should repair the pump for the job in hand now but rather that you could maybe refurb one or two pumps for future backup and gain practical experience at the same time.

Yep, youve got to be careful matching pump capacity to motor output..... its very easy to get it wrong if you dont have pump curves handy and then could also lead to burning out an otherwise good motor. Anyway, its good to see that youre back in action again, thats the main thing

Mal.

[robusto]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

I mentioned earlier on that Mrs Robusto had eyed the Grimac cup warmer and instead saw a plate warmer there waiting to be used.

Well, I came home from work tonight, and there they were among the assorted latte, espresso and cappuccino cups -- three large plates, already warm. And the machine had only been on for about 15 minutes.

At this rate, Ill come home to find a whole three-course meal there keeping warm to be eaten (and finished off with a nice double espresso, of course, as a nod to the machines raison detre).

--Robusto

[Thundergod]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Can you up the boiler temp and cook the meal as well?

[robusto]

Re: Upgraditis: 2-group Grimac Commercial

Thundergod, youre giving her ideas.

--Robusto