Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

    Youll never have any trouble attracting ladies to your home, JavaB as long as La Cimbali remains on the boil. But it must be good to bask in the glow of compliments they surely must lavish on their favourite barista. Especially since it is a labour of love.

    --Robusto

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

      I am really seeing forward to try out to what degree heat loss can be reduced. Itll probably take a long time as I have a young company to grow.

      I will try out several insulation methods and measure. Will post as soon as it is ready.

      Cheers,
      Edward

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

        Originally posted by Edward link=1183704092/15#16 date=1183842644
        I am really seeing forward to try out to what degree heat loss can be reduced. Itll probably take a long time as I have a young company to grow.

        I will try out several insulation methods and measure. Will post as soon as it is ready.

        Cheers,
        Edward
        Hi Edward
        I look forward to the results- while I like the results of the ceramic fibre and its price, there has to be someting better that doesnt cost what the silcicone foam does
        Brett

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

          I too look forward to the results. I was going to go ahead with the ceramic fibre lagging....but the potential health risks to my family made me take my toes out of the pool.

          Let us know how you get on, Edward.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

            Hey guys,

            Theres nothing wrong using Long Strand Biosoluble Fibreglass Matt to lag/insulate your boilers and then wrapping this in a close denier Fibreglass Cloth. This method is not only highly effective, economical and easy to apply but is also safe for use in appliances/equipment intended for the preparation of foodstuffs and beverages for human consumption. Its what Im using on my Bezzera...

            Mal.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?


              Heres my perspective: The energy use in using the machine will be unchanged. It will be approximately the same no matter what machine you use. Thats because you have tp heat cold water up to brew temp and use latent heat to generate steam. HX machines will use slightly more energy in this regard as the idle temp of the HX tube is higher (ie they have to heat the cold water to a higher temperature). So the machine in use will not be affected by boiler insulation.

              With commercial machines, theres a large energy penalty in heating up the water in the large boilers. So theres no point in turning a machine on and off too many times a day as you waste a lot of energy. Its similar to fluorescent lights that take more energy to start than to run, so its often more energy efficient to leave a fluoro running rather than turn it on and off all the time.

              However with idling, the size of a machines boiler and elements is nowhere near as relevent. Itis the heat loss that matters and that has more to do with the surface area of the boiler and the efficiency at which heat escapes the confines of the machine. This is wher boiler insulation makes a difference. You can lower the heat loss from the boiler so that it requires less energy to run contuously. You might be surprised how cheaply such a machine can run compared to say a smaller domestic heat exchanger machine that is switched on and off a few times a day.

              Mal has also pointed out that there is also a significant savings in reducing the heat required to get the machine up to temperature after powering it up.

              So it may not be a green technology, but you can make it run more efficiently and that helps everyone.

              BTW: with large commercials, they can be converted to run on gas. Then you have the option of using a greener fuel (than coal generated elctricity) or for the truly eco-friendly machine, convert it to run on methane generated from composting waste.....

              Cheers,

              Mark.

              PS: My 2 gr La Pavoni with a 14 l boiler idles at about 480 W uninsulated when running at 1 bar. It would be nice to pull that down at least by a factor of 2 or more.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                Originally posted by Mal link=1183704092/15#19 date=1183879875
                Hey guys,

                Theres nothing wrong using Long Strand Biosoluble Fibreglass Matt to lag/insulate your boilers and then wrapping this in a close denier Fibreglass Cloth. This method is not only highly effective, economical and easy to apply but is also safe for use in appliances/equipment intended for the preparation of foodstuffs and beverages for human consumption. Its what Im using on my Bezzera...

                Mal.
                Interesting Mal- what is it and where do you buy it? Also the cloth?
                Brett

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                  Originally posted by Sparky link=1183704092/15#20 date=1183941879
                  Its similar to fluorescent lights that take more energy to start than to run, so its often more energy efficient to leave a fluoro running rather than turn it on and off all the time.
                  On current model fluorescents the break even time is 20 seconds, unlike decades ago when it was 20 minutes.


                  Java "Flippin da switch" phile
                  Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                    Originally posted by Javaphile link=1183704092/15#22 date=1183949444
                    Originally posted by Sparky link=1183704092/15#20 date=1183941879
                    Its similar to fluorescent lights that take more energy to start than to run, so its often more energy efficient to leave a fluoro running rather than turn it on and off all the time.
                    On current model fluorescents the break even time is 20 seconds, unlike decades ago when it was 20 minutes.


                    Java "Flippin da switch" phile
                    Most of the fluoros in my house are 20 yo.... Still technology marches on.

                    FWIW: I just did a quick calculation to see what my machine is cost me. For 24/7 operation its about $18 a month just to keep it idling. It would certainly be nice to halve that...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                      Originally posted by Sparky link=1183704092/15#23 date=1183949929
                      Originally posted by Javaphile link=1183704092/15#22 date=1183949444
                      Originally posted by Sparky link=1183704092/15#20 date=1183941879
                      Its similar to fluorescent lights that take more energy to start than to run, so its often more energy efficient to leave a fluoro running rather than turn it on and off all the time.
                      On current model fluorescents the break even time is 20 seconds, unlike decades ago when it was 20 minutes.


                      Java "Flippin da switch" phile
                      Most of the fluoros in my house are 20 yo.... Still technology marches on.
                      Not an 80s Choose Life fluoro is it Sparky?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                        I would have thought that a machine (like anything else) would lose more heat the hotter it is. While it is kept at working temperature the rate of heat loss would be at a maximum. If it is off long enough to cool right down it would have lost less energy than it would take to maintain it at the working temperature and therefore be cheaper to switch off and reheat.

                        Has anyone tested this?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                          Originally posted by knewmans link=1183704092/15#25 date=1183978241
                          I would have thought that a machine (like anything else) would lose more heat the hotter it is. While it is kept at working temperature the rate  of heat loss would be at a maximum. If it is off long enough to cool right down it would have lost less energy than it would take to maintain it at the working temperature and therefore be cheaper to switch off and reheat.

                          Has anyone tested this?
                          When you turn on a machine you have about 15-20 minutes where the heater is on solidly and once hot it stays on for between 1/5 to 1/7 of the time (in my experience anyway). Sounds to me a lot cheaper to keep it running at than repeating 15 minutes at 3000 watts.
                          Brett

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?


                            I just did a calculation of this sort today and ame up with the factoid that an initial heat up is about equivalent to 3-4 hours running time for a 2 gr commercial. So its worth turning it off over night to save on power. Unfortunately it not very convenient as you cant use a standard timer to switch it on in the morning and give it enough tim eto get back to working temp before heading off to work.....

                            These are the issues Im struggling with.

                            Cheers,

                            Mark.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                              Whats your morning coffee woreth to you?

                              How much is 8 hours of running time in $?

                              How many coffees do you make in a day?

                              What does it work out to cost per cup?

                              Compare that to buying one at a cafe.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Anybody ever insulated a boiler?

                                Originally posted by Sparky link=1183704092/15#27 date=1183982564
                                I just did a calculation of this sort today and ame up with the factoid that an initial heat up is about equivalent to 3-4 hours running time for a 2 gr commercial. So its worth turning it off over night to save on power. Unfortunately it not very convenient as you cant use a standard timer to switch it on in the morning and give it enough tim eto get back to working temp before heading off to work.....

                                These are the issues Im struggling with.

                                Cheers,

                                Mark.
                                Hi Mark - I asked a barista who specialises in coffeecarting about this because I wondered if you could assume that halls, venues etc have 15amp power. He said no, and that he puts 10 amp plugs on his two group machines but asks that there be 15 amp circuit breakers on the board. If this is the case a timer might be ok? Ive got the Boema 1gp on a timer- what a great thing a one group commercial is- sure a bit slower at times and slower recovery but 10 amp pwer is readily available.
                                Regards
                                Brett

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X