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Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

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  • #16
    Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

    Lets hope not, cousin GrindOnDemand.

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    • #17
      Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

      da da da dom (click click) ... theyre creepy and theyre cooky, mysterious and spooky, theyre all together ooky ... :-?

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      • #18
        Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial


        I think many aspects of this discussion are probably misplaced. Temperature stability is one of the biggest areas of extreme machine geekiness that was foist upon us by David Schomer. Sure temperature matters, but most commercial machines have no trouble with temperature stability. Look at the results from my Pav. I have a hard time trying to get my brew temperature to fluctuate by one degree. The problem I have with my Pav is that that it is too stable. Id actually like to change the temperature with a little less fuss.

        I dont think one should get too worried with different definitions of temperature and accuracy vs precision. This is probably too technical for people who just want to make good coffee. As someone whos day job is to make scientific measurements, I see a lot of emphasis and trust placed on various web-gurus with very little critical assessment.

        As for the dissolved oxygen point, this is also misleading. The solubility of gases decreases with increasing temperature. However, these machine have the water in a pressure vessel with no head-room, so where is the dissolved gas to go? Under pressure the gas will remain dissolved at some equilibrium value. In a dual boiler, the lower temperature of the brew boiler will be likely retain more dissolved oxygen compared to a superheated HX. In any case this "staling" issue is probably more concerned with the larger amount of water left overnight in a dual boiler and the number of morning shots required to refresh the brew boiler. Is this really an issue?

        Id prefer a dual boiler machine for the simple reason that the brew temperature and the steam temperature become independent. This allows easy adjustment of the brew temperature, whilst leaving the steam boiler at an optimum temperature. As a CS member that tries a wide variey of different coffees, having a machine that is capable of making easy temperature adjustments is something I find very useful.
        For a commercial setting, this is probably a useless or unnecessary feature as theyd only run a single blend most of the time. This is where the HX machines shine. As for the few gourmet coffee establishments, they run a different business and I can see how a Synesso (- or Conti or Dalle Corte with individually adjustable brew heads) is useful.

        Horses for courses. I would personally rather a Ferrari over a Ford GT (the Zonda just looks ugly).

        Cheers,

        Mark.

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        • #19
          Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

          Well said Sparky. As with everything in life, a little critical thinking goes a long way!

          Cheers,

          Dennis

          PS. And yes, the Ferrari for me out of those 3, and that bridge was amazing..

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          • #20
            Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

            This is always going to be one of those comparisons which will not go away or be resolved. But it does offer lots of beneficial pros and cons for to aid in the decision making.

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            • #21
              Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

              I think both machines have pros and cons, but can you really generalise and say one is better? Id like to see the attitude that is attached to dual boiler machines dropped. Let results speak for themselves.

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              • #22
                Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                Im thinking of building this HX machine where the brew water passes through 2 boilers -_-

                Worst of both worlds...and then some

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                • #23
                  Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                  La Marzocco already does that.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                    Must say Ive enjoyed this thread...

                    Its esoteric, obscure, incredibly high end, and about 5th order from my perspective (as a newbie). But as usual, lots of education in there. Add to that more twists and turns than an Ian Fleming novel, a bit of tension, and in the end,  a resolution for everyone (I think). It gets a 5 star rating from me.

                    Great - keep up the good work all!

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                    • #25
                      Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                      Anyone for a Nescafe?

                      Hell if you put enough sugar and milk and alcohol into it it tastes so close to Sh^%$(*T you would not recognize it was poo.

                      nothing to do with the topic, but I enjoyed the read so much, and, had nothing else intellectual to add that I thought I could put low end into the equation.....................maybe I should just shut up now.

                      Craig.

                      GO PIES 2008

                      This post is in no way intended to promote the use of or advertise a product!

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                      • #26
                        Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                        Originally posted by Pioneer Roaster link=1197616758/15#20 date=1198121658
                        Id like to see the attitude that is attached to dual boiler machines dropped.

                        ...and Id like to see the attitude that is attached to HX machines dropped.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                          ;D ....ahhhhh...so proud to be a Snob.

                          Keep it coming fellas !

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                          • #28
                            Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                            Dont worry - I dropped out quick smart after this one. Now I try not to have an attitude about anything (except monthly Green Bay).

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                            • #29
                              Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                              ...actually I tuned mine back up again a few months ago to a .9bar at the low cycle and love it. I have programmed the 2 of the 4 auto buttons for different cooling shots and the old girl rocks along very very nicely...and the steam is wicked (2 hole at one end for small quantities and original 4 large hole at the other for the rest). I find that pulling successive shots now with both groups (no cooling flush between is necessary) is very nice..the machine is in the sweet spot doing that. It is also in the sweet spot with a 60ml cooling shot after hours of sitting.

                              Cheers

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Heat Exchange Vs Dual boiler - Commercial

                                What about the Synesso with a boiler for each group? How would it compare and also would that be better than the LaMarzocco?

                                The best espresso Ive had has come from a LaMarzocco and an ECM Veneziano but I think its like Jason was saying before when he compared tasting notes.

                                Im starting to think the machine changes the results more than I ever used to. Not this one is better than that but more this one tastes like 1 and that one tastes like 2.
                                This is without factoring in the grinder and the different way they do things.
                                Does this make any sense?

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