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  • TC
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by 0F232A2A2929130725284C0 link=1266375209/8#8 date=1266473239
    Are we able to get the PID dual boiler VBM domobar super plumbed in version here in aus?
    No Coffee Kid- The dual boiler PID version never made it beyond prototype for Oz as there were a number of unresolved issues and ultimately, ECA were not satisfied with the machine in that spec.

    I actually managed to break the prototype on my 3rd shot  :-[. So, not available and if it was, it would probably be $4.5-5k anyway  

    What we can get is the way better spec Izzo Alex Duetto and its cheaper as well. Further details: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1260516383

    Chris

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  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Are we able to get the PID dual boiler VBM domobar super plumbed in version here in aus?

    Leave a comment:


  • barnsey
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    disappointing, but keep us posted on any progress

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by 6E687F746E6971731A0 link=1200231035/67#67 date=1258281926
    Dont think I could be happier with it than I am with the GPP I bought from you the other day 8-)

    Glad youre happy Trent!

    Must say, I still have a massive soft spot for the Giotto

    Enjoy....

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • trentski
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Dont think I could be happier with it than I am with the GPP I bought from you the other day 8-)

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by 6C6A7D766C6B7371180 link=1200231035/65#65 date=1257814603
    Im one that was also interested in this machine, didnt realise it was almost two years ago since I first saw the pictures though. This thread sort of explains why I never saw it again.

    Nice looking machine, and I guess if it ever gets released here it will be better finished than the MinoreIII but you will be paying for it.

    maybe you can get a cool blue display retro fitted to the Minore 8-)

    Hi Trent,

    Yes, it is a very nice machine....

    I used it at Aromafest a couple of years ago and at that stage, ECA was talking about $3.5k. Lots of CSers were interested in the machine at that price.

    Soon after Aromafest, Sal from ECA generously sent the machine down to Melbourne so I could have a real play and the verdict was 3 shots before it died. It turned out that the steam element had failed.

    Normally, replacement is a simple 5 minute job in most machines, but this machine has 2 vertical boilers. VBM, in their wisdom didnt bother to install an inspection plate under the machine, so element replacement required substantial disassembly of the machine to remove the boiler and then replace the element- of which there were none in Australia :.

    Soon after, our exchange rate against the Euro plummeted and that would have added circa 20% to the retail price of the machine. ECA made the decision that the machine was still unresolved and that it was too expensive to sell well in the Australian market.

    I have requested that ECA revisit the machine as with our improving $, things may swing in our direction again.

    Hope that helps...

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • trentski
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Im one that was also interested in this machine, didnt realise it was almost two years ago since I first saw the pictures though. This thread sort of explains why I never saw it again.

    Nice looking machine, and I guess if it ever gets released here it will be better finished than the MinoreIII but you will be paying for it.

    maybe you can get a cool blue display retro fitted to the Minore 8-)

    Leave a comment:


  • baconmeister
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by 5F4B5C5D5D50545857390 link=1200231035/63#63 date=1257694881
    Just wondering... what has happened to this? no one seems to be selling them here at all///
    Go for the Expobar Minore 3, PID and Dual Boiler, 2x 2000W elements!!! Plenty of power. And quite a good price as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • freddiman
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Just wondering... what has happened to this? no one seems to be selling them here at all///

    Leave a comment:


  • baconmeister
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Goodness! are we having a Physics lecture?
    But I mean at the end of the day, we have to try it out before giving any sort of conclusion.
    To be honest I think using a dual boiler on a E61 group is more a marketing gimmick.

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Greg,

    I think you will find most heat will be lost by convection..... cool air flowing over the surface and removing the heat... but the amount of that loss.... (and the loss from radiation also)..... depends not only on the area, but the smoothness of the surface, the colour of the surface (black for example loses more)..... how readily the air can flow around the group etc.... etc....

    Therefore "More mass and same area=more stability" doesnt necessarily apply.

    Heat which is applied is via convection within the water and then conduction within the group itself..... and the gradient produced is dependent on thermal resistance along the path.....

    Again "More mass and same hot water exposure=slower heat uptake and more stability" is a gross oversimplification.....

    There is a LOT in the thermal design of the whole group assembly.... little of which can be determined by "eye balling" the assembly......

    So whether the designer has done a fantastic job or not..... it will almost certainly require some end user technique changes (tweaking) to get the best results...... either a warming or cooling flush.... of a certain volume and after being idle for a certain time....... to get the best the best the machine is capable of....

    Only a machine with a design like a GS3 or Synesso comes close to perfect in that regard

    Leave a comment:


  • GregWormald
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by luca link=1200231035/40#59 date=1230609027
    *snip*
    I would expect that the Vibiemme dual boiler to perform similarly to the expobar.  In fact, one of the selling points that people have used overseas about the Vibiemme is that its group is apparently heavier than other e61 groups.  If it is heavier without also having a larger thermosyphon volume, it would make sense that the Vibiemme dual boiler machine might actually display more of a difference between first, second and third shots than other e61 dual boilers.  
    *snip*
    Cheers,

    Luca
    If my physics knowledge is correct then:

    The heat that is lost from the E61 is mostly by radiation. More mass and same area=more stability.

    The heat that is gained is by convection. More mass and same hot water exposure=slower heat uptake and more stability.

    Of course without actual measurements this is only theory.

    Greg

    Leave a comment:


  • luca
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by Andy Freeman link=1200231035/40#57 date=1230573926
    Warming flush?

    ???
    The thermosyphon in an E61 is really only at the top, near the big bolt. This means that the temperature drops off as you move from the top of the group towards the bottom (ie. the portafilter) ... ie. in this respect, an e61 group is kind of similar to a chunk of metal on boiler with no thermosyphon group. So you either have to flush the group to raise the temperature, or you have to take into account the effects of not flushing.

    With a HX system, there is so much crazy crap going on that its difficult to make generalisations, but, from memory, all of the e61s that I have scaced are a degree or so cooler on the first shot than on the second, after which they stabilise. There are graphs on the internet that show that the expobar dual boiler/e61 puts out brew temperatures that increase by one degree on the first and second shots, after which they stabilise. If you speak to Nim, he loves his expobar, but does taste the difference as it heats up when making successive shots. This sort of makes sense when you consider that the water flowing through the thermosyphon is at brew temperature, so the rest of the group must be a fair bit cooler and, so, able to absorb more heat from the water flowing through it. This problems is exactly what the la marzocco style saturated group was intended to obviate.

    I would expect that the Vibiemme dual boiler to perform similarly to the expobar. In fact, one of the selling points that people have used overseas about the Vibiemme is that its group is apparently heavier than other e61 groups. If it is heavier without also having a larger thermosyphon volume, it would make sense that the Vibiemme dual boiler machine might actually display more of a difference between first, second and third shots than other e61 dual boilers. I would regard with extreme suspicion any supposed statements to the effect that this Vibiemme machine somehow produces brew temperatures that are identical on the first, second and third shots.

    None of this is to say that any of these machines produce bad shots, just that though they are dual boilers you cannot necessarily count on them delivering a repeatable temperature profile over the first few shots in the same way that you can with a la marzocco. Thats fine, because, as with a HX machine, you just use it in the way that delivers the best tasting coffee.

    Cheers,

    Luca

    Leave a comment:


  • HomeBarista
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine

    Originally posted by Andy Freeman link=1200231035/40#57 date=1230573926
    Warming flush?

    ???
    Hi Andy,i  mean no cooling or warming flush between the shots(the owners know the offset temp is 94 deg at the grouphead), only cleaning flush...thats because of the dual boiler pid technology ?

    Leave a comment:


  • andy
    replied
    Re: New Vibiemme Dual Boiler Machine


    Warming flush?

    ???

    Leave a comment:

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