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  • NEW Espresso top machine

    hello, I post in this area....
    I need for a top espresso machine
    Vibiemme domobar dual boiler rotary procon pomp
    La Marzocco gs/3
    ECM Veneziano A1 (but this not sell in ITALY :-? )
    and more....
    I prefer : rotary procon pump E61 group and dual boiler......

    please help me.....
    krell 8-)

  • #2
    Re: NEW Espresso top machine

    Se fosse Io, mi metterei in contatto con un technico nella tua zona, a domandare che modelli si possono ottenere li, e discutterei quello che sara meglio per luso particolare tuo.......compreso la garanzia e il servizio vicino, senze che no comprerei niente. Detto quello, non vorei nemeno pensare di comperare modelli che non sono rapresentati o venduti  nella tua zona.

    Per il resto,
    a) le macchine di che domandi non sono per luso casa
    b) non confonderti con specificazioni tecniche....una macchina da caffe espresso che lavora in maniera ottima non e necessariamente la somma delle specificazioni scritte nei libretti de luso. Qui parlo di specificazioni come "dual boiler"...."procon pump".... "gruppo E61" ecc.
    c) Avere i modelli nominati da te sopra in casa, e come mandare la moglie a portare i due figli a scuola in vilaggio con un camion invece di usare la sei cento!
    d) I modelli nominati non sono simile uno da laltro...se vuoi paragonare vari modelli devi almeno scegliere macchine simili o commercializzate nello stesso gruppo.

    Nota anche...tanti che vogliono avere le macchine da bar in casa, non pensano che queste macchine non sono adatte per quello, e anno problemi dovuto al fatto.

    Ci sono tanti modeli adatti per luso famiglia, chiamate macchine "semi-commerciali". Tante usano la pompa a vibrazzione invece di una pompa rotativa (di che la procon e solo una marca)...non ce niente di male qui. Sono modelli adatti per la casa, piu piccole di macchine da bar, ecc. Questo non vuol dire che no lavorano bene.

    Poi, non mi voglio imbrogliare a parlare qui, o bene, o male, di vari modelli specialmente quando dopo tanti anni in questo mestiere, e conosciendo tante marce e modelli e il servizio o buono o no dato da i fabbricatori o i loro agenti, vedo cosi tante balle scritte in questi fori da gente a raccomandare o no i vari modelli di che non anno nemeno un bicchierino di esperienza o nemeno visto le macchine di che scrivono.

    Se sei nella zona di Treviso o vicino a Conegliano, chiama pure la fabbrica BFC e spiega al Signor Domenin quello che pensi. Le macchine loro da bar sono semplici, designate bene,  affidabili e poi, fanno un ottimo caffe, senza attacarsi al tram con le "specificazioni".

    In conclusione, devi chiarificare in mente quello che vuoi per te, non comperare una macchine per la sodisfazione di altri. Stai attentento di non lasciarti confondere da gli articoli che racomandano modelli, basati su le specificazioni dei vari modelli. Invece, vai in cerca di una macchina che ti fara il lavoro bene, a lungo, senza problemi di servizio, e che ti dara sodisfazione a te.    

    Spero di avere chiarificato un po.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: NEW Espresso top machine

      Now where is that online translator:P

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: NEW Espresso top machine

        If you find one please let me know, it would be so handy to write something in whatever your first language is (English here I assume), and at the flick of a button have some programme or other convert it to the language required! And would save a helluva lot of time.

        Regards,
        Attilio
        aka FC, first / original CS site sponsor.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: NEW Espresso top machine

          "If I had, I would put you in touch with a technical in your area, a request that models can obtain them, and discutterei what will be best for your particular use ....... including warranty and service close , or that no comprerei nothing. Having said that, not vorei nemeno thinking of buying models that are not rapresentati or sold in your area.

          For the rest,
          A) Machines that asks not for home use
          B) not confonderti with technical specifications .... a coffee machine that works in good and not necessarily the sum of specifications written in booklets of use. Here I speak of specifications as "dual boiler pump "...." procon ".... "E61 group".
          C) Having models appointed above you at home, and how to send his wife to bring the two children to school in the village with a truck instead of using the six hundred!
          D) The models are not appointed by a similar others ... if you want to compare various models you must choose at least similar machines or marketed in the same group.

          Also note ... many who want machines bar in the house, do not think that these machines are not suitable for that, in years because problems.

          There are many models suitable for family use, machines called "semi-commercial". Many use the pump vibrazzione instead of a rotary pump (that procon and only brand) ... not anything wrong here. They are suitable models for the home, more smaller machines from bars, etc.. This does not mean that no work well.

          Then, I do not want to cheat to speak here, or good or evil, especially when several models after many years in this profession, and many conosciendo marches and models in service or good or not given by the fabbricatori or their agents, I bales written so many holes in these people or not to recommend the various models that not a glass nemeno years of experience or nemeno seen Machines writing.

          If you are near Treviso or near Conegliano, also called the factory BFC and explains to what Mr Domenin think. The bar their machines are simple, designated good, reliable and then she makes a good coffee without attacarsi the tram with the "specifications".

          In conclusion, you must clarify in mind what you want for yourself, not to buy a machine for a satisfied than others. You are not to leave attentento confused by the articles that racomandano models based on the specifications of the various models. Instead, Vai looking for a machine that you will work well in the long, trouble-free service, and that gives you satisfaction to you.

          I hope to have clarified somewhat."


          - google translate

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: NEW Espresso top machine

            ....not quite the translation but fun

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: NEW Espresso top machine

              I use Babel (Altavista).

              If he were I, I would put myself in contact with a technico in your zone, to ask that models can be obtained them, and discutterei which sara better for the particular use yours...... compreso the guarantee and the near service, senze that I would not buy nothing.
              Saying that one, not vorei nemeno to think to buy models that rapresentati or they are not sold in your zone.

              For the rest,
              a) blots some to them of that questions are not for the use house
              b) not to confuse with technical specifications... una expressed machine to you from caffe that not and necessarily works in optimal way the sum of the specifications written in the booklets de the use. Here I speak about specifications like "dual boiler"... "procon pump".... "group E61" etc.
              c) To have the models name from you over in house, and like sending the moglie to carry the two sons to school in vilaggio with a truck instead using the six one hundred!
              d) the name models are not similar from the other... if you want to compare you vary models you must at least choose blots some similar or commercialized in the same group.

              Famous also... many that they want to have them blot some from bar in house, they do not think that these blot some are not adapted for that one, and year problems had to the fact.
              There are many modeli adapted for the use family, calls blots some "seed-commercial". Many use the pump to vibrazzione instead of one rotating pump (of that procon and only one marca)... not ce nothing badly here.
              They are models adapted for the house, piu small of blots some from bar, etc. This does not want to say that they do not work well.

              Then, I do not want myself to be brailed up to speak here, or well, or, of badly several models especially when after many years in this trade, and conosciendo many marce and models and the service or bond or not given from the fabbricatori or their agents, I see cosi many bales written in these holes from people to recommend or not the several models of that year nemeno a drink of experience or nemeno seen does not blot any to them of that they write.

              If six in the zone of Treviso or neighbor to Conegliano, it also calls factory BFC and it explains to Mr. Domenin which tasks. It blots of it they give bar simple, they are designated well, reliable and then, make an optimal one caffe, without attacarsi to the tram with the "specifications".

              In conclusion, you must clarify in mind which you want for you, not to buy one blots some for the sodisfazione of others. You are attentento not to leave you to confuse from the articles that racomandano models, base to you on the specifications of several the models. Instead, you go in tries of one machine well that you fara the job, to along, without service problems, and that you dara sodisfazione to you.

              I hope of to have clarified a po.


              More fun!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                haha...I love it

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                  hehehe....

                  ok so these are translation "engines" that havent been perfected yet............

                  Amazing that they are so close....yet so far from the correct translation. Its like a translation of words and phrases that misses reading between the lines.

                  But a real eye opener I must say.

                  great stuuff

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                    This one isnt too bad...... Has the same amusing shortcomings as others though,

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                      Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1201300118/0#2 date=1201319295
                      Now where is that online translator:P
                      heres my human version - aside from a few parts (where there are some comments (marked with red.) the original meaning should be reasonably well preseved. however I stongly doubt that it is stlylistic and grammatically sound english  

                      "If it were me, I would contact a tecnician/reseller in your area and ask him which models you can get there and which models would be most suitable for you use....  this way the local warranty and service are included - which would be the first and foremost requirement for buying a machine myself. This said, I dont want to talk you out of buying a machine for which there are no local retailers or sellers.

                      As to the rest,

                      a) the machines you list are not intended for home use

                      (red.: I thought at least the GS3 was?)

                      b) dont let you delude from the technical specifications.. an espresso machine optimal for your requirements isnt necessarily the sum of its specifications as listed in the user manual. There (in the manuals) theyre talking of specifications like "dual boiler" -- "procon pump" --- "E-61 group" etc.

                      c) To have one of these machines at home, is like sending your wive to take the two children into town with a truck instead of a Fiat 600

                      d) the models you list are really different from each other.. if you want to compare various machines, at least you have to choose more similar machines, in other words machines in the same league for a specific intended stlye of use.

                      Also note.. there are a lot of people that want to have a professional (bar) machine for their home use. What they forget is that these machines are not adapted for this kind of use and hat this very difference is what causes (a whole range of) problem(s).

                      There are a lot of machines intended for the home use, theyre called "semi-commercial". A lot/most of them use a vibration pump instead of a rotary one (procon is only one of various manufacturers of rotary pumps).. there is no right or wrong here. These are machines intended for home use, smaller than those used in bars, etc. This doesnt mean that they dont work well.

                      Besides, I dont want to praise or abash any particular models especially after working in the field for a really long time.
                      (red.: now it gets more difficult, I may need some help from the actual author to translate it better)
                      I know a lot of different producers and there some who provide (by themself or their local representatives) a good service level and some who dont. I see so much nonsense written about (any) espresso machine(s) in these fora - from people who have very limited (hands on) experience with the very model theyre writing about  - or worse, didnt ever see those machines in person.

                      If you are in the area of Treviso or near Conegliano, simply call the BFC factory and illustrate your wishes to Mr. Domenin . Their bar (professional) machines are simple, well designed, reliable and most importantly do make a perfect espresso, without the need to agonize over specifications (red.: literally it was "attaching yourself to a tramway/streetcar").

                      In conclusion, you have to clarify for yourself what you really want, dont buy a machine to please/give satisfaction to others. Pay attention not to get confused from posts/articles that recommend certain models based solely on their specifications. Instead, search for a machine that does the job well, for a long time and for which a good (local) service is available - and one that satisfies your needs.

                      I hope this gave some clarifications"


                      tanti saluti

                      marco

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                        Originally posted by welone link=1201300118/0#10 date=1201363684
                        Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1201300118/0#2 date=1201319295
                        Now where is that online translator:P


                        As to the rest,

                        a) the machines you list are not intended for home use

                        (red.: I thought at least the GS3 was?)

                        b) dont let you delude from the technical specifications.. an espresso machine optimal for your requirements isnt necessarily the sum of its specifications as listed in the user manual. There (in the manuals) theyre talking of specifications like "dual boiler" -- "procon pump" --- "E-61 group" etc.

                        c) To have one of these machines at home, is like sending your wive to take the two children into town with a truck instead of a Fiat 600

                        d) the models you list are really different from each other.. if you want to compare various machines, at least you have to choose more similar machines, in other words machines in the same league for a specific intended stlye of use.

                        Also note.. there are a lot of people that want to have a professional (bar) machine for their home use. What they forget is that these machines are not adapted for this kind of use and hat this very difference is what causes (a whole range of) problem(s).

                        There are a lot of machines intended for the home use, theyre called "semi-commercial". A lot/most of them use a vibration pump instead of a rotary one (procon is only one of various manufacturers of rotary pumps).. there is no right or wrong here. These are machines intended for home use, smaller than those used in bars, etc. This doesnt mean that they dont work well.



                        marco

                        Why is it that these machine are not really suited to home use?

                        It seems that the GS3 and A1 are on the wish list of a lot of CSers,

                        Could it be that in having these at home could adversely affect their performance in some way?

                        Craig.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                          thanks for all (grazie per tutto)
                          I looking for an top quality machine and I ask for my friends of very old and famous CAFFé CIRCI in ROme !!!(io sto cercando una macchina alta qualità ,e chiedo al mio amico in CIRCI caffè , una delle più vecchie e famose in Roma !!!)
                          thanks
                          Giona

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                            Why is it that these machine are not really suited to home use?

                            It seems that the GS3 and A1 are on the wish list of a lot of CSers,

                            Could it be that in having these at home could adversely affect their performance in some way?

                            Craig.
                            a) The primary (and only) function of a commercial machine is to be used continually / continuously ergo...a "commercial" or business situation. They do not adapt well to being used to make one offs in the home environment and you end up compensating for their various idiosynchracies and or modifying or expecting them to behave in a certain way that they cant do.


                            b) Good question, and it is a part of "coffee forum psychology A01". Ask yourself why forum members seem to aspire to such machines. Is it because less than a handful of people repeatedly & cyclicly recommend certain models around and around and build them up (in these circles) into icons or items of "necessity" and as something that others should aspire to? What is a top" esp machine. Is it the "bigger is better" thing, is it the one with the most complicated technical internal design, is it the most expensive one, is it the one with the fanciest body, or is it the cheapest simplest one that makes a great coffee irrespective and performs at least similarly to the expensive or complicated one in the commercial sense?????????? Are the extra coconuts payable for a "top" machine (whatever that is) justifiable in terms of the quality and performance "differencial"?


                            Regardz,
                            Attilio
                            aka FC, first / original CS site sponsor.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: NEW Espresso top machine

                              Attilio,

                              THANK YOU for your answer!

                              I have wondered for some time if this was the case or not with a commercial machine, in a limited

                              home use situation.

                              I thought the A1 was a large home use machine, thanks for the information,

                              would the GS3 be in this category as well?

                              Craig.

                              Comment

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