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  • Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    just gave my Carimali a run seems to be turning on for 12 seconds off for about 30 secs in standby.
    what are others machines doing in "standby"
    would on for 24 off for 36 (a min) seem too much at standing.

    if this seems to much what could be done to change (improve off time)?
    there does not seem to be any pressure leaks i can hear
    i intend to insulate very soon.


  • #2
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    Hi maheel my faema (not insulated, but only 12 months old) is 16 sec on 140 off. I know that other factors other than leaks are pressure boiler is running at, temperature of the room, state of pressurestat (as in how decrepit- often just needs a diaphragm kit), size of element.
    Insulating the boiler helped with my old Bezzera.
    Brett

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

      thanks telemaster

      yeah i am thinking there is an issue with that time frame.

      it was just a rough count in my head but it seem "on" to much imo based mostly on reading and gut feel.

      been doing some reading on coffeegeeks and HomeBarista, and might have a look at the Pstat.

      come on CS what do your HX machines do ?

      on another note, i did a rough power cost calculation
      at 3000watt its costing me max $0.69 an hour (69 cents) to run
      it normally runs 25ish mins from turn on to first "off"
      it then needs a bit of flushing and group head warming time etc

      i can handle the cost but want to ensure its running right
      going to look for a pid maybe for it instead of a new Pstat?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

        Hi maheel
        re the PID thing (which I have on my single boiler Botticelli) - it doesnt seem to be a marriage made in heaven according to what Ive read, but others may correct me here. My old Bezzera had a leak where the pipes went into th epressure stat- you could look for tell tale signs there, maybe also pick up a cheap stethoscope from jaycar and have a general listen because that cycle is a bit odd. A pressurestat kit is about $25 from coffeeparts and a whole new pressurestat is about $89 I think (all minus GST)
        Brett

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

          thanks telemaster, i will have a look inside and around the Pstat.

          its had a rough life i think, but it has plenty of life left in it yet.
          with the amount of crud in it when I 1st got it there may even be some crap in the Pstat pipes.

          i have been running it without the covers in place, so the air temp around the boiler would be lower (affecting the cycle) but i would not think that much. Your right Pstat kit (or new) is cheap, I just need to figure out what the cause is before outlay $$$

          Yes further reading has made the PID idea not as likely, but i want one for my homebrew setup and was thinking of setting a plug and play wiring loom up on the Carimali for a PID.
          I get my new shed / workshop in about 30 days, lots of projects have been on hold for a while, soon they will be back on the bench


          Maheel

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

            I reckon you would be surprised at how much heat is lost without the covers, and this will (I suspect) radically shorten the cool-down time and the overall cycle time.

            Greg

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

              Originally posted by 5D687F7D4D7568777B767E1A0 link=1248135212/5#5 date=1248250351
              I reckon you would be surprised at how much heat is lost without the covers, and this will (I suspect) radically shorten the cool-down time and the overall cycle time.

              Greg
              I think theres a lot of truth in this- it is the same principle as insulating the boiler in a way
              Brett

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                Hi all i need some more ideas about what could be wrong as the cycle times are not getting better. The dead band is about 30 secs at idle it then may only turn "on" for 2-3 sec then dead band for 15 then back on for 3-4 secs and repeat back to 30 then 15 etc

                I tried lowering the pstat and that reduced on the gauge OK but it did not change the cycle time at all really. I pulled the pstat off for a look and it looks in very good condition, rubbers look fine and seems to be operating OK, no leaks. Cleaned and checked the pipes.

                I thought the thermostat may be to low and that the pstat and thstat might be fighting each other? eg thstat turing it off and pstat wanting to turn it back on. But lowering the pstat .3 bar did not get this idea to work.

                This is a thermostat on the boiler, not sure if it could be giving me grief. Anyone no if it can be reset or temp range altered? I thought it might be effecting it somehow? enters a tube in the element


                Here is the relay now its noises "click clack" of the switch is a bit weird, but as itd "driven" by other components it should not be the issue (i thought). Its getting a lot of use as the cycle time  is making it work to hard i would replace this as well if i can find the reason for the short deadband.


                For those with gauges, if you turn of the power how quickly does you gauge drop .1 of a bar on the boiler and then fall away.
                Mine does drop off but i dont have enough experience to gauge times

                Might be leaks but where anybody got any tricks for finding them?
                i am getting the odd drip drip via pipe to the 3way waste  solenoid on one group but IMO its not enough to drop the pressure much. there is no HISS, i get the odd drip on another pipe but about under 7mls an hour that is not enough to worry is it no steam on that as its below the water line?

                if its the computer then its not worth replacing IMO

                those are pre-clean pictures

                frustrating fun   >
                Leeham


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                  Originally posted by 333F363B3B325E0 link=1248135212/7#7 date=1248825329
                  Hi all i need some more ideas about what could be wrong as the cycle times are not getting better. The dead band is about 30 secs at idle it then may only turn "on" for 2-3 sec then dead band for 15 then back on for 3-4 secs and repeat back to 30 then 15 etc

                  I tried lowering the pstat and that reduced on the gauge OK but it did not change the cycle time at all really. I pulled the pstat off for a look and it looks in very good condition, rubbers look fine and seems to be operating OK, no leaks. Cleaned and checked the pipes.

                  I thought the thermostat may be to low and that the pstat and thstat might be fighting each other? eg thstat turing it off and pstat wanting to turn it back on. But lowering the pstat .3 bar did not get this idea to work.

                  This is a thermostat on the boiler, not sure if it could be giving me grief. Anyone no if it can be reset or temp range altered? I thought it might be effecting it somehow? enters a tube in the element


                  Here is the relay now its noises "click clack" of the switch is a bit weird, but as itd "driven" by other components it should not be the issue (i thought). Its getting a lot of use as the cycle time  is making it work to hard i would replace this as well if i can find the reason for the short deadband.


                  For those with gauges, if you turn of the power how quickly does you gauge drop .1 of a bar on the boiler and then fall away.
                  Mine does drop off but i dont have enough experience to gauge times

                  Might be leaks but where anybody got any tricks for finding them?
                  i am getting the odd drip drip via pipe to the 3way waste  solenoid on one group but IMO its not enough to drop the pressure much. there is no HISS, i get the odd drip on another pipe but about under 7mls an hour that is not enough to worry is it no steam on that as its below the water line?

                  if its the computer then its not worth replacing IMO

                  those are pre-clean pictures

                  frustrating fun   >
                  Leeham

                  The sensor is what is going into the boiler and the black unit with the BLUE adjustment is the thermostat.

                  Find a manufactures mark and a model # and all the specks will be in Google somewhere

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                    Thanks AM i was not sure if it was adjustable, will have a better look at it.

                    Google the all knowing oracle will provide some answers soon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                      Hi maheel how long since the pressurestat had a new diaphragm kit? If its in an unknown unit you could buy a kit for about $25 or a whole new unit for about $89+GST. I had odd clicking with my old Bezzera and it was a mix of the pressurestat diaphragm and the pressurestat contacts being worn.
                      Brett

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                        i know telemaster, its likely to be old but looks ok. just not wanting to buy bits till i narrow it down. i dont want them sitting in a box getting old if not needed.

                        i just picked up some 2nd hand parts very cheap, might swap out the Pstat and see if there is any change. will use that as a gauge to buying a new one

                        but i got another project on the bench tonight, will start a new thread.
                        coffee machines seem attracted to me........

                        thanks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                          Originally posted by 31202920282436312037450 link=1248135212/10#10 date=1248848939
                          Hi maheel how long since the pressurestat had a new diaphragm kit? If its in an unknown unit you could buy a kit for about $25 or a whole new unit for about $89+GST. I had odd clicking with my old Bezzera and it was a mix of the pressurestat diaphragm and the pressurestat contacts being worn.
                          Brett
                          Good Call...

                          Originally posted by 28242D202029450 link=1248135212/11#11 date=1248851640
                          i know telemaster, its likely to be old but looks ok. just not wanting to buy bits till i narrow it down. i dont want them sitting in a box getting old if not needed.

                          i just picked up some 2nd hand parts very cheap, might swap out the Pstat and see if there is any change. will use that as a gauge to buying a new one

                          but i got another project on the bench tonight, will start a new thread.
                          coffee machines seem attracted to me........  

                          thanks
                          Bugger... Send a couple my way I need something to get my hands into....

                          Besides they would look great with wooden group handles and steam knobs etc..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                            Originally posted by 505C555858513D0 link=1248135212/11#11 date=1248851640
                            coffee machines seem attracted to me........  
                            Haha or you just have waaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

                              Originally posted by 2D212825252C400 link=1248135212/7#7 date=1248825329
                              Hi all i need some more ideas about what could be wrong as the cycle times are not getting better. The dead band is about 30 secs at idle it then may only turn "on" for 2-3 sec then dead band for 15 then back on for 3-4 secs and repeat back to 30 then 15 etc
                              Im afraid I dont understand. :-[

                              Are you complaining that the deadband is too narrow and the machine is too temperature stable?

                              My Diadema (not a commercial!) cycles on for 3-4 seconds and then off for 50. During that time the pressure rises from (approx.) .75 bar to .9 bar. This is in a case that is about 1 cubic foot.

                              If you are still running it with the case off it WILL cool down quicker and cycle at shorter intervals.

                              Greg

                              Comment

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