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  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Originally posted by 040D400 link=1248135212/30#30 date=1252930907
    Rather than messing about calculating it - why not just get one of those wattmeter thingies (eg this from jaycar: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS6115) and run it for a while and see? From memory, my expobar minore costs about $0.10 for the first 1/2 hour (warming up) and then runs at about $0.03 per hour when not making shots (assuming about $0.20/kWh). Unless you are making a _lot_ of coffee and steam I suspect most of the energy used will be making up for the heat lost to the surroundings (depending on things like how well insulated the boiler is, what the ambient temperature is, how fast the air is moving across the front, is your group shrouded or stitting proudly out the front of the machine etc etc), rather than heating the relatively small amounts of water used (not true for a thermoblock setup of course).

    As a bonus, you can then measure all the other stuff eating power in your house, which will probably be quite a lot scarier than the coffee machine
    I have an energy meter fitted with a wireless readout available... But also us a J-car unit as I can easily see and measure over time..

    No assumptions and rough calculations to contend with.

    KISS

    Leave a comment:


  • jamies
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    I timed my Carimali machine it does 36 Seconds on and 4 minutes 6 seconds off with a 3500W element, no insulation and covers on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Originally posted by 575B5252515147585B56340 link=1248135212/32#32 date=1253003624
    Hi all,
    I timed my San Marino SME-2 today for 5 cycles and found that it was on for 23 seconds and off for 150 and each cycle was within a second difference. My boiler is 10.5 litres and the element is 4700W.
    Surprised, I thought it would be on a lot more than that.

    Sooty
    Looking good Sooty.... 8-)

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • coffeeslob
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Hi all,
    I timed my San Marino SME-2 today for 5 cycles and found that it was on for 23 seconds and off for 150 and each cycle was within a second difference. My boiler is 10.5 litres and the element is 4700W.
    Surprised, I thought it would be on a lot more than that.

    Sooty

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Originally posted by 707C6F7E1D0 link=1248135212/29#29 date=1252929866
    2mcm its the ECM A1....bigger boiler than Giotto
    That makes sense...My Ven S1 had one too

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • DM
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Rather than messing about calculating it - why not just get one of those wattmeter thingies (eg this from jaycar: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS6115) and run it for a while and see? From memory, my expobar minore costs about $0.10 for the first 1/2 hour (warming up) and then runs at about $0.03 per hour when not making shots (assuming about $0.20/kWh). Unless you are making a _lot_ of coffee and steam I suspect most of the energy used will be making up for the heat lost to the surroundings (depending on things like how well insulated the boiler is, what the ambient temperature is, how fast the air is moving across the front, is your group shrouded or stitting proudly out the front of the machine etc etc), rather than heating the relatively small amounts of water used (not true for a thermoblock setup of course).

    As a bonus, you can then measure all the other stuff eating power in your house, which will probably be quite a lot scarier than the coffee machine

    Leave a comment:


  • marc
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    2mcm its the ECM A1....bigger boiler than Giotto

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    Originally posted by 363A29385B0 link=1248135212/27#27 date=1252905356
    We have a 1800 watt boiler on our ECM
    :-? Might be worth checking that marc...More like 1200/1300 I think...

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • marc
    replied
    Re: Calculating Your Machines Energy Consumption...

    We have a 1800 watt boiler on our ECM, it is on at 7am and switched off at approx 10pm, not a lot of use, so I would say it heats about 15 percent of time. (machine on for about 15 hours a day)
    we ran it on a cent o meter from bunnings for a while and calculated about 40-50 cents a day.
    And our rough figures were about $200 a year to run. We are in Victoria so it depends on your power cost and type off off peak rates you have, and meter installed in your power box etc.
    But our sparkie checked our figures and said he thinks with the new interval meters and off peak etc, and average home machine with a 1800 watt element and little use about $150 a year.
    For the savings on espressos and with the appreciation of guests I think its money well spent.
    cheers
    Note-if i added insualtion around the boilerI figure I would save another $30 but I worry the machine we burn or something and being an illegal addition I dont want the worry.

    Leave a comment:


  • maheel
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    i timed my Brugentti machine today, after a good hour at idle i timed 3 cycles
    times seem very stable  
    222 secs off
    25 secs on
    cycle 247 secs

    14.5 cycles per hour or 364secs ish
    duty time 10.2% ish

    based on that i am getting a cost on duty cycle of about 6 cents per hour, i am truly amazed at that i thought i was "ON"  a lot more.

    now off to make a coffee, and eat my humble pie hat

    and it really shows me the Carimali has some explaining to do.... ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    Originally posted by 222E272A2A234F0 link=1248135212/22#22 date=1252537197
    now i have NFI but i would have thought 15% duty a amazing number to achieve without any insulation
    At idle my 2 group Cimbali M28 has a duty cycle of 1/8 with an uninsulated 12l boiler. Thats only 12.5% on time. If you do a search on here youll find that others with commercial machines have reported similar times. Including Telemaster in his 2nd post in this thread. Realize that these are the rates when the machine is fully up to temp and just idling. Not for the warm-up period, when the duty cycle will obviously be much higher.


    Java "Getting close to espresso season here!" phile

    Leave a comment:


  • maheel
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    Yeah Ozscott i saw your post and thought WOW thats low. Its an interesting discussion.

    next time i turn mine on i am going to retime it a bit to see

    Leave a comment:


  • ozscott
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    My FAEMA Due is 10.5% on duty cycle when sitting - but its an 11l lagged boiler.

    Cheers

    PS, There is another thread on this and I calc for 10 hours running, without start up power, and no use, just sitting on, 50c/day using .15c/kw in Brisbane.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • maheel
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    now now it was a bit of a guess on the high end, not often i even leave it on for more than 2 hrs....

    its only 7 lt so that may have an impact on heat / thermal mass

    but yeah i will try to retime it using a timer.

    now i have NFI but i would have thought 15% duty a amazing number to achieve without any insulation. most machines seem to have so much open space in the case and little measures to retain any heat (open bottom / top etc)
    they bleed heat at an amazing rate, not saying your wrong, i just thought thats pretty good

    leeham


    Leave a comment:


  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: commercial heater on off cycle how long is yours??

    Originally posted by 4549404D4D44280 link=1248135212/20#20 date=1252535694
    My Brugentti runs on idle about 60% on 40%off
    That seems incredibly high!

    Commercial machines typically run at about a 15% on/85% off duty cycle at idle.

    You might want to do another check of your machines duty cycle and verify those times. Make sure you measure it after your machine has been on for at least a couple of hours so it has stabilized. If it is indeed running at a 60% on duty cycle at idle it would be a prime candidate for insulating!


    Java "60%?!?!?!?" phile

    Leave a comment:

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