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  • Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

    Well, after many wasted hours on internet auction sites - I finally got what I feel is a bargain. A 2004 Brasilia Portofino that was previously in a church cafe.
    They have had a few issues with it - and tried replacing a few things, such as new element, new motherboard, new pressurestat (I think) and a few other bits and bobs.

    Its got A LOT of crap around it, but internally it looks pretty good. Any way, I am bound to have 4000 questions so any help is appreciated! I will post photos as more work is complete, but it may take me a while!


    Cheers,
    Ben

    PHOTOS!

    The beast without group handles, drip tray, or cup tray (took them out early!)


    The internals - slightly dirty but nothing a bit of citric acid and love cant fix!
    The blue arrows indicate new items - but what is that white thing that connects to the pump?


    The new motherboard - interesting to note that in the bottom RH corner it says G.Rossi!


    Not too much scale!


    Dirty - but Im not exactly sure the purpose of these. They look like flow meters but what exactly do they control?


    More removed


    Baggin and Taggin



  • #2
    Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

    White thing is the capacitor, cant give you an explanation of what it does though, I think the flow meters control the volume of water to the group head (volumetric buttons) but I could be wrong there. Have fun looks in good nick.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

      Correct Moto.
      From my old electrical engineering days - the capacitor is used the "start" the motor. Single-phase motors need to create a magnetic pole shift and the capacitor causes the AC sine-wave to alter momentarily, generating a magnetic field that acts like a "spin" to get the shaft moving. Dont lose the capacitor, you wont start the motor.
      Some larger AC motors can have 2x capacitors, one for start and the other for run (the run capacitor acting as well as a sine wave corrector from the inductive effect of the motor).
      The flow meters are measuring your volumetric dosages for each group, so you can program the levels, etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

        moto and ccc2 - awesome explanations. Thanks very much.

        Once everything is stripped, apart from obvious electronics, is there anything else I shouldnt be putting in a citric acid or descaling solution bath?

        Cheers,
        Ben

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

          Old Brasilias never die... ;D

          My boss even resurrected our old one...its going to become the function machine now.

          Good luck with this one Ben!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

            Hey Ben you have been busy, lots of fun in there.

            did those flow meters have a lot of crud inside them? In the picture it looks like residue in them. Or has it just fallen in when you tool the "tops" off?
            i did not open mine, thought it would be hard for stuff to reach mine.

            seems to be an awful lot of coffee muck on them and that area, does the drip tray not cover them? My flow meters where kind of up behind the boiler. they were one of the cleanest parts on my machine......
            did those 3 way valve pipes (plastic) even make it to the drain they look to short?
            Yours has a different layout compared to mine, i need to go look in some more commercials

            dont put parts with seals / plastic in citric baths, try to ensure you get the seals off 1st. it may have an effect on the rubber / plastic, but i have NFI really. but it will make those pipes come up very golden . I used hot water and citric and then throw in the parts = shiny fast

            use coffee cleaner on those parts it should be better on the seals

            Have fun and post up more pics as you go

            Leeham

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

              Originally posted by 6F7F7373687D437B7D701C0 link=1248526256/4#4 date=1248583705
              Old Brasilias never die... ;D

              My boss even resurrected our old one...its going to become the function machine now.

              Good luck with this one Ben!  
              Thanks Scoota! I am absolutely loving doing this work - I feel like a kid at Christmas who just got a new set of mechano or a tonka truck!


              Originally posted by 717D747979701C0 link=1248526256/5#5 date=1248602445
              Hey Ben you have been busy, lots of fun in there.

              did those flow meters have a lot of crud inside them? In the picture it looks like residue in them. Or has it just fallen in when you tool the "tops" off?
              i did not open mine, thought it would be hard for stuff to reach mine.
              That photo was taken as soon as I opened them and little crud fell in. I am pretty sure the reliability issues are just due to a complete lack of cleaning. Some of the crud in the E-61/B-61 group heads is incredible. The pipe from the top of the boiler to the group head would allow barely any water flow!

              Originally posted by 717D747979701C0 link=1248526256/5#5 date=1248602445
              seems to be an awful lot of coffee muck on them and that area, does the drip tray not cover them? My flow meters where kind of up behind the boiler. they were one of the cleanest parts on my machine......
              did those 3 way valve pipes (plastic) even make it to the drain they look to short?
              There is coffee muck absolutely everywhere. The drip tray looks really good and should have been quite functional - I really dont know how they managed to get it so filthy. The solenoid valve pipes are fine - perfect length, they just need a bit of a clean.

              Originally posted by 717D747979701C0 link=1248526256/5#5 date=1248602445
              dont put parts with seals / plastic in citric baths, try to ensure you get the seals  off 1st. it may have an effect on the rubber / plastic, but i have NFI really. but it will make those pipes come up very golden . I used hot water and citric and then throw in the parts = shiny fast

              use coffee cleaner on those parts it should be better on the seals
              Ok - thanks for that tip. I was planning on replacing most of the gaskets and seals any way.


              So the update for today is - Im an idiot. While removing the boiler and all its pipes I managed to twist one of the copper pipes running from the boiler to the solenoid. I gave the nut the smallest of turns and it just buckled - I know copper is soft but this was extraordinary.

              So now I have the fun job of working out what to do. Ill give Pedro a call tomorrow and see if they stock any pipes. Pretty disappointing but its almost all apart - and you learn from your mistakes!

              More photos to come in the next couple of weeks!  

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                Originally posted by 30383731396366520 link=1248526256/6#6 date=1248609408

                So the update for today is - Im an idiot. While removing the boiler and all its pipes I managed to twist one of the copper pipes running from the boiler to the solenoid. I gave the nut the smallest of turns and it just buckled - I know copper is soft but this was extraordinary.
                ahhhhhhhhhhhh  bugger, but i also did the same on mine but manged to massage it back together without the need for a new pipe.
                Kicked my self about it all day ......

                is the buckle right near the nut?
                could you braze in a join at worst?

                coffee parts have lots of fittings for the ends of pipes, would not be to hard to make a new pipe and attach the fittings.
                You have all the parts to copy the pipe at worst, enzed can help with bending etc, coffee parts have the fittings so it can be done !!

                make sure your using the two spanner method to undo the joins!!

                Leeham

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                  Originally posted by 737B74727A2025110 link=1248526256/6#6 date=1248609408
                  So the update for today is - Im an idiot. While removing the boiler and all its pipes I managed to twist one of the copper pipes running from the boiler to the solenoid. I gave the nut the smallest of turns and it just buckled - I know copper is soft but this was extraordinary.

                  So now I have the fun job of working out what to do. Ill give Pedro a call tomorrow and see if they stock any pipes. Pretty disappointing but its almost all apart - and you learn from your mistakes!
                  dont worry, its a small problem. you can buy copper (reeces, bunnings etc) and coffeeparts can sell you the fittings. If you cant make up yourself I am sure a plumber wouldnt have any trouble. If you are really keen and dont have equipment, you can actually do it over you gas stovetop!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                    Round 2: So I spent a little bit more time on her last night. I forgot to mention that the Church named her Lazarus ;D

                    Any way, the E-61 mushroom needs a good descale, but the first descale of the boiler went reasonably well.
                    I have no idea how to get the dispersion unit off because no flat-head screw driver is wide enough to fit in the slot without being too thick. Any suggestions?

                    E-61 mushroom


                    Dispersion block - how do I remove it?


                    Scale knocked out from the boiler :-?


                    Boiler in its first bath


                    Boiler after bath



                    Will keep you updated with progress! Only the electrical wiring is left on the frame, so that will come off soon and the frame will have a mega clean. Then every component will be bathed in descaling solution or backwashing detergent depending on its location.

                    Filing up the 50L plastic bucket to descale the boiler took a fair while with a 1.7L kettle ;D

                    Cheers,
                    Ben

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                      from the 1st pics i thought it was a copper boiler

                      looks shiny now

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                        Originally posted by 5F57585E560C093D0 link=1248526256/9#9 date=1249343230
                        Dispersion block - how do I remove it?
                        A bush trick
                        Spray WD40 & leave overnight
                        Use a coin of appropriate thickness  
                        You may need to cut and grind for width

                        Alternately you can use a flat chisel (not wood chisel)
                        Then use a shifting spanner to turn the funny convex screw

                        KK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                          Originally posted by 43676E6E6D6D5743677B6567080 link=1248526256/11#11 date=1249344567
                          Originally posted by 5F57585E560C093D0 link=1248526256/9#9 date=1249343230
                          Dispersion block - how do I remove it?
                          A bush trick
                          Spray WD40 & leave overnight
                          Use a coin of appropriate thickness  
                          You may need to cut and grind for width

                          Alternately you can use a flat chisel (not wood chisel)
                          Then use a shifting spanner to turn the funny convex screw

                          KK
                          Thanks KK. Like the ingenuity! Ill certainly give that a try

                          Cheers,
                          Ben

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                            Round 3 - well, she is finally naked. Everything is now completely stripped and the cleaning / trying to put it back together process begins!

                            Firstly, I know this isnt completely necessary, but I really want to get the drainage tray off and I can only see one mode of connection - which I am unsure of how to remove. Any hints?





                            Next is the frame (sorry for the out of focus image) - it seems reasonably void of rust, but due to the large amount of coffee rubbish on it, I am not 100% sure. What is the best method of cleaning this on a budget? Would a wire brush remove the paint? Do I need to go down the path of sandblasting and repainting etc?



                            This is the multitude of components (yes there is some form of order!!)



                            Next to the pump and motor - is there any need for me to take apart the motor? I have removed the 4 screws (3 of them in red) but cannot seem to separate what seems to be 2 halves. Also, I have removed the clamp around the entry to the pump, but cannot separate the pump from the motor. How is this achieved?





                            More cleaning questions - can I clean the electrical wires, and if so, how?



                            With stainless components, is a backflushing detergent the best way to get rid of oils and gunk such as this -



                            Finally, this is the result of the second boiler bath - slowly getting better. How many times should I be doing this? The two brass T joints are proving to be very difficult to get off. They are located on the bottom of the boiler and, as can be seen, have had slight leakages and hence scale build up. I have tried soaking a towel with WD40 (RP7), and then trying to remove them - but neither have budged. Any suggestions are appreciated.



                            So, after the frame is cleaned, I will begin descaling appropriate components and slowly start putting her back together. I really appreciate all the help I get on here and apologise for the numerous number of (silly) questions.

                            Cheers,
                            Ben

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Brasilia Portofino 2 Group

                              Originally posted by 5E56595F570D083C0 link=1248526256/13#13 date=1249539195
                              Firstly, I know this isnt completely necessary, but I really want to get the drainage tray off and I can only see one mode of connection - which I am unsure of how to remove. Any hints?
                              It looks like a pop rivet
                              To remove you will need to
                              Drill or grind the top mushroom and the bottom will fall off or punch it out

                              New pop rivet will be needed in reassembly

                              Originally posted by 5E56595F570D083C0 link=1248526256/13#13 date=1249539195
                              More cleaning questions - can I clean the electrical wires, and if so, how?  
                              Wipe with a microfibre cloth with a mixture of mild detergent and mentholated spirits
                              (Soap is for the grease, Metho is for the glue stuff)

                              I have tried soaking a towel with WD40 (RP7), and then trying to remove them - but neither have budged. Any suggestions are appreciated.
                              If all you have tried has failed then apply heat by flame (as in gas flame torch) and turn

                              KK

                              Comment

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