Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
I think Ive got everything sorted now. So for reference, our CTU was knackered. It was regulating pressure as well as filtering the water before it broke so too much pressure was coming into the machine. A new CTU with variable pressure regulation has sorted that out nicely. Full service didnt do any damage either.
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New Machine: BFC Classica Help
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
I dont think 7 bar on the pump gauge is indicating any problem. This is the residual pressure in the heat exchangers, and it will rise naturally as the machine heats (water expanding), then drop back to the pump pressure (9 ish bar) when the groups are running. The machine will have a one-way valve probably before the pump which prevents water flowing back into the mains, so what you are seeing is the sum total of pressure from mains + residual pressure that the pump built up -the group solenoids and pump switch on and off together. The only way to see JUST mains pressure on the gauge would be to electrically disconnect the pump then run one of the groups, but theres really no need.
Therell also be an expansion valve somewhere that will be set to about 11-12 bar, to keep things within the working limits of the HX plumbing. If the gauge goes beyond say 12, the expansion valve is not doing its job.
Having said that, you should definitely look into the mains pressure and add suitable pressure limiting valve/filtration to prolong the life of the machine.
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
If the gauge isnt faulty, that would mean either
a) there isnt a water pressure limiting valve fitted to the water delivery line....(there should be, as there should also be some kind of water conditioning filter) OR.....
b) there may be a water pressure limiting valve fitted but it isnt a model that regulates the line pressure down as far as is usually used.....(normally a 350 kPa, or sometimes a 500 kPa).
EDIT:
c) OR, it has a correct type limiting valve fitted but its faulty.
On that gauge, the red area is the right area to be in during use (pump running making coffee), and it should park back to somewhere around 3.5 to 5.0 bars when the pump isnt running (if fitted with a 350 or 500 kPa limiting valve).
Suggest the place to start is to look at the fitment of the machines flexible water inlet pipe to your mains water stop cock (tap), and see if there is a valve fitted between the tap and the flexible water line. If so read the number / code on it to ascertain whether it is the "correct" type.
Only after youve done that, can it be ascertained what course of action might be taken next.
There is no manual available to the public but there is an operator booklet supplied with each new machine. It doesnt tell you anything much and usually disappears shortly after install. About the best you could get from it would be how to programme the touch pads. Wont tell you anything about maintenance or service as that is not for the operator but an authorised service technician to sort and rectify as necessary.
Hope that helps.
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
And does anyone know if there is any literature available on these machines, service manuals and such?
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
Im dragging up this old thread for a question about a similar machine and the photos are relevant.
I have here the big brother BFC, in not quite as beautiful condition.
The left hand gauge (the pump gauge?) on it is not going below about 7 bar when the machine is off, advancing into the red zone when its on and idle.
I figure something is full of water and needs draining, Im no expert and dont want to start messing around with it in the back (although I am very excited about learning about whats in there), but if there is an easy way to release that pressure that anyone knows about it would be much appreciated.
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
I was thinking the same thingOriginally posted by 6E53545D523C0 link=1248655064/11#11 date=1248870458Its a great looking machine. Everything looks brand new.
Nice pickup.
KK
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
Its a great looking machine. Everything looks brand new.
Nice pickup.
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
I see this effect with my SB EM6910 and have realised the particles or milky effect I see are simply tiny bubbles. Within ~10secs the water is crystal clear with no sediment at the bottom.Originally posted by 7B7B7B7E7F7462110 link=1248655064/4#4 date=1248775187the water would usually come out milky, but as the water heats up it tends to clear up... the wierd thing is, when the machine is heated up, and i pour a water shot, the water comes out looking like theres particles in it, but leavng it alone for a few seconds it starts to clear up to normal water, im not sure if this is normal, maybe its because its hot water? or pressurised water? lol.
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
Originally posted by 5E7A737370704A5E7A66787A150 link=1248655064/7#7 date=1248821848I see the pictures just fine
KKYeah theyre now appearing here as well.Originally posted by 417D607B717067727A71150 link=1248655064/8#8 date=1248824835Ditto.
Java "Still prefers to attach rather than link
" phile
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
Ditto.Originally posted by 12363F3F3C3C0612362A3436590 link=1248655064/7#7 date=1248821848I see the pictures just fine
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
I see the pictures just fineOriginally posted by 416A7D6A7B6362676E0B0 link=1248655064/6#6 date=1248820321Your first 3 pic links are broken. Sad
Java "Prefers to attach rather than link" phile
KK
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
Your first 3 pic links are broken.Originally posted by 5959595C5D5640330 link=1248655064/4#4 date=1248775187Anyways, yeah you guessed right, i am located in queesnaland, brisbane.if anyone can recommend a mobile service agent that would be awesome.
heres some more pics if anyone is interested
Java "Prefers to attach rather than link" phile
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
lol those weatherboards and stumps gave it away, i have owned a few of them.
I would have thought (i was just guessing) that a drain pipe would have flowed to that square black plastic box where the waste water goes under the drip tray. maybe you dont get one? check any pipes or plug bolts (sump) that come from the or disregard that idea. You most likley have pumped heaps of fresh into it anyway.
i think your milky water is just hot water, taste some once its cooled.
but i reckon your fine.
try to get some proper cleaner like http://www.bomborasupplies.com.au/product.php?productid=259&cat=6153&page=1
it will help a lot and you can soak the screens etc in it.
even ask your local coffee shop for a few spoon fulls, if they use it.....
STEAM lol i have the same problem, i use my small Brasilia Lady every day and can get OK foam, when I fire up the Carimali and blow milk all over the place. Its got 4 hole tips to, I am going to use a bit of heavy gauge copper wire to fill 2-3 holes to tame it a little.
Its just to quick on 200mls of milk for me.
go check out Veneziano Caffe in West end
http://www.venezianocoffee.com.au/first-pour
they will sort you out for beans and gear
Keep at it, thats a sweet looking machine
and it looks like your in t shirt and boardies.....
lucky bastards, i really miss QLD, verandas and XXXX lol
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
took the day off and spent it cleaning and flushing out the water from the machine. the water comes out crystal clearish now (drinkable i think). i removed the shower screen like you suggested and i was filthy in there, everything was covered in thick sticky coffee. once that was cleaned it turned out ok.
Im currently not using any detergents, but will look into it very soon.
You mentioned something about opening the drain plug, when the machine is cold. where abouts is this located? when i open up drip tray panel, theres is a black switch which is left horizontal, the sign says to leave it in the ON position, which is horizontal. im assuming its not it because when i turn it, it doesnt seem like anything happens.(see below)

The water comes out hot, very hot. When the machine is just on and in heating mode, i would pour a few water shots. the water would usually come out milky, but as the water heats up it tends to clear up... the wierd thing is, when the machine is heated up, and i pour a water shot, the water comes out looking like theres particles in it, but leavng it alone for a few seconds it starts to clear up to normal water, im not sure if this is normal, maybe its because its hot water? or pressurised water? lol.
So, at the moment it seems to be working ok. Im able to pull less than decent shots with it, but thats because ive been using very old stale beans just for testing. i tried it once with fresh beans and it turned out very nice, heaps of crema, just havnt been able to grind it correctly to get a consistant time.
Steaming is my biggest concern. It literally scares me using its steamer. Its a 4 hole tip, and the steam that comes out of it is insane, its kind of like a smoke machine. Ive burnt my hands about 5 times trying to steam. the milk always turns out watered down and runny, unable to get any microfoam because if i try to let air in, milk squirts all over the place (due to the 4 hole tip i think) and i get huge bubbles. i can kind of turn down the steam output but its still very hard to steam with and i do think its just too much steam comming out.
maybe theres a way to tighten some valve to tone down the steam, not sure. Or im thinking of purchasing a 1 hole tip, or something very similar to what i have with my breville :-/.
Anyways, yeah you guessed right, i am located in queesnaland, brisbane. if anyone can recommend a mobile service agent that would be awesome.
heres some more pics if anyone is interested

underneth the drip tray

Inside the machine after a rough scrub down
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Re: New Machine: BFC Classica Help
thats a nice looking machine
well worth your efforts
could be a few issues in regards to milky water, but i am no authority on the subject and it might pay to have a qualified person look / service it.
1.milk contamination of the boiler, this is where milk can be sucked back up the steam wand.
2. could be stirred up sediment and also grinds, but they should not be in the boiler only the group head area.
3. mine (lot older than yours) had some flakes coming out (not grinds) and its more like bit of scale from the tank. has cleared up since i did a big flush
could be other issue, others might chime in
have you removed the shower screen from the group head?
try a few more back flushes with the screens off, also with the blind in and sort of wiggle the group handle in the "unlocked" position so water pours out the side of the group handle
you could also remove the dispersion block behind the shower screen and the group seals (carefully)to clean out the group heads even more.
are you using backflush detergents? they help clean it a lot better and are a must really
when the machine is cold you could also open the drain plug, mine runs on a pipe to the drain under my drip tray (square black plastic tray) from the bottom of the boiler. You can tell its a drain as it has a stopper nut on the end and i assume yours has one.
i filled with water via taking out the OPV and a funnel on the top and opening the drain then repaeated a few times.
This imo stops having to keep running the rubbish into the groups, i did have my whole boiler out as well but.
whats the water taste like hot and cold?? might help others here with answers. Mine tasted oily / stagnant for a little bit even after a clean out hard to describe but i think just old coffee oils taste :P
I had the flakes for about 3-4 tanks now seems clear.
Yours is way newer looking than my old Carimali.... NICE
i want shiny stainless steel to
lol
where are you located, based on the picture of the weather boards on the house my guess is Queensland? Someone may be able to recommend the best service agent for your area if you need one.
Leeham
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