Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

[maheel]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Hmmm....

PID controller right above the Steam Boiler -
Mal.

I thought the same thing Mal, i had a quick check of my OMRON PID "operational environment conditions" in the manual and it suggests not to exceed 50 C. I know TC had commented in the thread about it in post #37 and it will be hopefully a negligible issue.

it does look nicely laid out inside but

[TC]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I thought the same thing Mal, i had a quick check of my OMRON PID "operational environment conditions" in the manual and it suggests not to exceed 50 C. I know TC had commented in the thread about it in post #37 and it will be hopefully a negligible issue.

Interesting points boys...

A couple of things which come to mind are that Gicar supply the specific PID for espresso machines- think VBM, Bezzera, Expobar and Izzo and it by nature is near a boiler in all of them.

Id figure that Gicar would produce something which can operate above 50 deg C as the environment in all machines would be fairly toasty Id reckon.

Ill have a scrounge around to see if I can find the specifics on the PID and might also use the Roast monitor software and a bead thermocouple to get an idea of how warm things get inside a couple of machines

Chris

[A_M]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Hmmm....

PID controller right above the Steam Boiler - Id be hoping that they change that aspect of the design sometime soon.... Probably be a worthwhile thing for current owners to do, to install some reflective foil insulation on the underside of the controller. Otherwise, a beautiful looking machine. No doubt about it.... 8-)

Mal.

AND

I thought the same thing Mal, i had a quick check of my OMRON PID "operational environment conditions" in the manual and it suggests not to exceed 50 C.

AND

d figure that Gicar would produce something which can operate above 50 deg C as the environment in all machines would be fairly toasty Id reckon.

Strange is it not... First thing I look at is the electronics and then move on..

1: Even the Gicar units are not rated as high as one might expect... Especially the later units with lots of electronics..  It is the nature of every day / common electronics electronics ... Full Stop.

It means you have to calibrate and adjust when at operating temp... A fancy way to manage offsets and fudge factors.. It is done in every industry..

Further more; it does not mean they wont work..  Just that the accuracy / linearity might be out.. Who cares..
Only a coffee machine..   Not like 1C extra swing means life or death as it can on / in other systems.

Look at many of the Pressure Stats ...  Rated about the same..  It is the dead band that changes.. So a bit wider...  It is a coffee machine...

Just repaired a Gicar that had moisture / water vapour get in...

Electronics were fine.. Just blew tracks off the board... Vaporised them  ;D


As to the temperature of the environment and PID in this machine - CONTEXT...  

Would NOT be of an issue for me; in the first instance....  

I was more concerned as to the steam and moisture from the anti Vac valves and if they ever got sticky; as to how moisture tolerant the electronic controller might be ????

[maheel]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Hi TC

like you said Gicar would have put some thought into there PID design the omron one may be (is) very different, it did not actually say it would fail +50 but after that it reduces the warranty to 1 year (norm 3yr) so they were maybe expecting a lower life span in high temp areas.

i just tried my temp probe in the top of my old Brug for interest, it hit about 60 just stuck in the top above the boiler and then near the front area.

Leeham

[TC]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Hi TC

like you said Gicar would have put some thought into there PID design  the omron one may be (is) very different, it did not actually say it would fail +50 but after that it reduces the warranty to 1 year (norm 3yr) so they were maybe expecting a lower life span in high temp areas.

i just tried my temp probe in the top of my old Brug for interest, it hit about 60 just stuck in the top above the boiler and then near the front area.

Leeham

Hi Leeham,

I had a look at the Gicar site. They rate the PID to 70 deg....

Chris

[A_M]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I had a look at the Gicar site. They rate the PID to 70 deg....

Chris

Interesting Watts at a max of 1200W Hence the brew is restricted to 1000W and let the steam do its own thing at ~1500W

As I said previously... Temp is not the main issue.. Humidity and moisture will be the concern over time.

And with teh Steam boiler @ 1500W and closest to teh PID ; ambient temp and anti vac valve bled - would be worth checking out..... 8-)

Interesting as to what ya find...

[Dimal]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I was more concerned as to the steam and moisture from the anti Vac valves and if they ever got sticky; as to how moisture tolerant the electronic controller might be ????

Guess where most of this hardware resides.... On and around the Steam Boiler :

Mal.

[A_M]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I was more concerned as to the steam and moisture from the anti Vac valves and if they ever got sticky; as to how moisture tolerant the electronic controller might be ????

Guess where most of this hardware resides.... On and around the Steam Boiler :

Mal.

Yes... That was what got me... Brew boiler over on its own... But the PID and steam boiler in partnership..

May not be a problem... But worth being aware...

[TC]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

PID and steam boiler in partnership..

It would appear not to be a problem in this or any other machine- or wed see posts all over the place about dead PIDs in a variety of machines here and on other forums. Fact is, we dont.

Ill video and then post the Alex Duetto as it comes to pressure. The anti-vac valve and release of steam is well away from the PID and failing a safety valve release, my opinion is that were speculating about nothing as no issue exists.

Hope that clarifies things...

[A_M]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

PID and steam boiler in partnership..

Ill video and then post the Alex Duetto as it comes to pressure. The anti-vac valve and release of steam is well away from the PID and failing a safety valve release, my opinion is that were speculating about nothing as no issue exists.

Hope that clarifies things...

As per my many previous posts Never said it was a problem... Just something to be aware of...

In addition every one was jumping as to the rated Temp and position see posts 74 and onwards....

As stated previously.. I dont see it as an issue... But I would be following Mals suggestion.

It would appear not to be a problem in this or any other machine- or wed see posts all over the place about dead PIDs in a variety of machines here and on other forums. Fact is, we dont.

Context and Apples with Apples...  A pid in the KLUB T2  Would not get above ambient as plenty of space and they have a cooling fan.. In any number of machines.. Not a problem... In my DCM... Not a problem but mounted well away from heat..

I am not saying it will fail...  I am stating an observation... And one that others have also identified......


PS. Look forward to the video etc..

I am sure that will make it clear to all; as a picture paints a 1001 words.

[McCartan]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I have possession of my Izzo Alex Duetto II since Monday; picked up from Dimattina Coffee, Perth. It is gorgeous!!! Have been playing with it since and gone through a lot of coffee but worth it as the shots are wonderful. Still trying to get perfect microfoam, just not used to the power of the steam (previously had Sunbeam E6910) but I am sure I will get there eventually.

Had great support from Perth distributors and of course Chris (Talk Coffee). Many thanks for all your help.

Maureen

[A_M]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

I have possession of my Izzo Alex Duetto II since Monday; picked up from Dimattina Coffee, Perth.  It is gorgeous!!!  Have been playing with it since and gone through a lot of coffee but worth it as the shots are wonderful.  Still trying to get perfect microfoam, just not used to the power of the steam (previously had Sunbeam E6910) but I am sure I will get there eventually.  

Had great support from Perth distributors and of course Chris (Talk Coffee).  Many thanks for all your help.

Maureen  

Congrats and well done...

Am sure that others will also gain from you new skills and equipment..

[TC]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Congrats on the new kit Maureen and thanks for your support.

You are the proud owner of #1 Alex Duetto in the west. 8-)

I wish you many godshots!  

Chris

[McCartan]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

Forgot to mention, I also got a new Pullman Barista tamper (previous Pullman tamper with lovely jarrah handle sized for retired Sunbeam) Base was slightly too big for the Alex, but I think I will hold on to it as it looks so good on the bench and the fact that I got it from Corey Diamond a few years ago before Pullman tampers became "famous".

Maureen

[GregJW]

Re: Izzo Alex Duetto II discussion thread

After working with one of these on the Di Bartoli stand at Aroma yesterday, Ive gotta say its a beautiful machine, a real pleasure to use.

Beautiful constant temp from the brew boiler (I gave up doing cooling flushes), fantastic steam power (took a bit of getting used to with a little 400ml jug  ), large drip tray, beautifully built (and HEAVY - I think I put my back out just trying to check out how heavy it really is). If I had one, Id definitely plumb it in but- the tank is a bit small. Still, a good option.

I cant believe no one snapped it up at $4,500 inc the Macap M4D. (The M4D itself is a beautiful grinder - with it dialled in and timer set - thanks Chris - its so easy to use. Just hold the basket under the chute, exact dose every time (except when I forgot to top the hopper up and ran out of beans - whoops  :-[) and so neat. NO wastage.)

Anyway, the Izzo is firmly on my wish list. If offered an Izzo or a GS3 (over $3K more), Id think seriously about still taking the Izzo. (Maybe, maybe not, but I definitely wouldnt pay the extra for the GS3).

Greg