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What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

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  • What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

    Hi guyz,

    Iam new here in this forum!!! go easy on me yea!!!

    anyway, what commercial machine is value for money for a cafe? 2 grp or 3 grp?

    ive heard that the Ruggero machine is value for money. Any feedback?

    Ive used La Marzocco, and I love it...and Ive used Synesso too. Dont really like Synesso as the steam wand is hard to use. Anyway, all brand is considered.

    Another question is how many coffee can I make with a single group head, 2 grp head and 3 grp head per hour (average).

    Thanks in advance!!!!!


  • #2
    Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

    Welcome purevannie to CS...

    Youve asked quite a few questions for a first post! But I am sure that youll get some answers.

    Ive got some questions for you...

    Is this for your cafe? How many coffees do you sell there now and how much volume do you think youll end up doing? Have you got a budget for a machine or are you just going to go all out?

    IF you also have a look at the extreme machine section of the forum, youll see that there is some good information and reviews on various machines there. Youd be well served by having a read and seeing what is said.

    Personally, I think youve asked some pretty open ended questions. It would be like coming onto a car forum and asking which car should I drive? ;D

    We have a Ruggero at work and whilst I could give you my opinion on it, seeing as there are already several models of this machine, I could be telling you something completely different to what youre expecting. There is a review of this machine that I did in the extreme machine section. Hopefully, it might be of help to you...

    Cheers
    Scoota

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

      All other things being equal - I would always recommend a three over a two group. I suspect that the greater mass of metal and hot water of the larger machine results in greater stability of brewing water temperature (which is, after all, one of the most important variables in espresso making).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

        Very open ended question without much info on its intended use

        Is its intended use for home use
        If so
        Space ?
        Will it fit ?
        Grinder ?
        Is a 2 or 3 group overkill - no but one can get excellent or equal results with a single group machine

        Is its intended use for a business
        If so

        Volume ?
        Grinder type?
        You may need 2 machines to cope with demand or as back up if one is in need of service


        Originally posted by 3F3A3D2A392E2121262A4F0 link=1274988596/0#0 date=1274988595
        Another question is how many coffee can I make with a single group head, 2 grp head and 3 grp head per hour (average).
        I will answer the single group question

        It is machine dependant as in power wattage of the elements and boiler capacity

        My Bezzera BZ 40 can do up to 100 shots per hour trouble is I cant go that fast :

        KK

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

          Originally posted by 3530372033242B2B2C20450 link=1274988596/0#0 date=1274988595
          commercial machine is value for money for a cafe? 2 grp or 3 grp?
          KK commercial I would reckon

          Like a few comments above if you have the bench space and the budget then a 3 group is a bit of a no brainer. Extra steam reserves when under the pump with two Baristas going a 2 group will fall over quicker than the 3 group. Two staff on a 2 group doesnt really work as well.

          How many an hour depends on a whole lot of things, the person on the sticks being one of the biggest issue, followed by boiler recovery rate. Recovery rate is helped by bigger boilers and more power, this will also help temp stability on the single boiler hx machines.

          Brand, dont be blinded by the bling and the this is the best machine sort of hype. Reliable well tuned and well maintained (make sure this can be done locally wherever you are? ) will get you really good results and most likely save you a heap of $$ going in over hype.

          That said if your budget will run to LM, Syneeso country and it suits you then why not

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

            Originally posted by 11010D0D16033D05030E620 link=1274988596/1#1 date=1274998657
            Is this for your cafe? How many coffees do you sell there now and how much volume do you think youll end up doing? Have you got a budget for a machine or are you just going to go all out?
            Yea, this is for new cafe. Its a brand new place that I will be setting. Its in CBD, so I wouldnt know whats the volume like. As for budget, I dont really have a budget yet, as Iam waiting for my renovation to be done, and a good value for money machine, that will last. On the other hand, if price comparison to be done, and if its not too much of a difference, I will go for the better machine.

            So you guyz reckon I should get 2 machines? Are you guys joking? Why is that? I thought they will do the maintenance on site?

            THANKS!!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

              Have you considered renting a coffee machine? That way you dont have to commit to a large investment, and you can see after a while how much kg of coffee per week youre using. Based on that you can either continue renting a machine, upgrading, or purchasing one with confidence.

              Originally posted by 6C696E796A7D727275791C0 link=1274988596/5#5 date=1275027001
              Originally posted by 11010D0D16033D05030E620 link=1274988596/1#1 date=1274998657
              Is this for your cafe? How many coffees do you sell there now and how much volume do you think youll end up doing? Have you got a budget for a machine or are you just going to go all out?  
              Yea, this is for new cafe. Its a brand new place that I will be setting. Its in CBD, so I wouldnt know whats the volume like. As for budget, I dont really have a budget yet, as Iam waiting for my renovation to be done, and a good value for money machine, that will last. On the other hand, if price comparison to be done, and if its not too much of a difference, I will go for the better machine.

              So you guyz reckon I should get 2 machines? Are you guys joking? Why is that? I thought they will do the maintenance on site?

              THANKS!!!!!  

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                Originally posted by 3134332437202F2F2824410 link=1274988596/5#5 date=1275027001
                Yea, this is for new cafe. Its a brand new place that I will be setting. Its in CBD, so I wouldnt know whats the volume like. As for budget, I dont really have a budget yet,
                There are some dangerous sounding words there.

                I hope youve done your homework.
                If you dont have a business plan that includes a budget and turnover projections you are setting yourself up for a fall.

                Do you have any of this done or any previous experience?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                  how much rent do you pay for your premises?
                  what is the square footage of the shop?
                  how many staff will be working there?
                  what will you be charging for your coffee?
                  what will be your opening hours?

                  This will give you some idea on capacity and break-even figures, and this will show what you would need to handle peak demand. While you might be able to make 100 or so on a single group per hour, or about 800 per day, people dont come in regularly like that. if you get hit with 20 coffees and it takes you 20 minutes to make the last one, they will be down the street and finished their latte by then. I would be leaning towards 2 x 2 group machines. Any problems with one, youve still got another to keep the doors open. you can also adjust it to suit different beverages if you have the clientele for it. And finally, you can have 2 staff working comfortably on them. This is all highly dependent on your numbers and premises mind you, so do that first!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                    purevannie, I regret that most of the responses youve received are irrelevant.

                    Your choice of coffee equipment should be discussed with your coffee supplier. He, or she, will be the person who knows what equipment is the best marriage for the coffee they supply. In addition, your Roaster should be able to provide equipment at near wholesale cost, provide you and your staff with training, etc.

                    If you havent already done so, meet with 4 or 5 local Roasters whose coffee you enjoy, and ask them how they can support you in your endeavour. I emphasise the word, support - saving a few dollars per kg becomes quite costly if the service is lousy.

                    All the best with your venture, and of course, if you would like to discuss this with me offline Id be happy to help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                      Originally posted by 5345404051535F56565555300 link=1274988597/9#9 date=1275032605
                      purevannie, I regret that most of the responses youve received are irrelevant.
                      Thats a bit harsh! ;D

                      There is quite a good bit of relevant info above, as for the roaster selling you equipment that suits their coffee??? Most will sell you what company they have relationships with (not that there is anything wrong with that) but they may not be the best machines for the job.

                      I 100% support the notion of backup support being the key to your purchase without that the machine could become very expensive very quickly in the event of a breakdown.

                      Sounds like you have a long way to go before you are near ready to make a decision. Good luck and get plenty of advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                        Originally posted by 2432373726242821212222470 link=1274988597/9#9 date=1275032605
                        Your choice of coffee equipment should be discussed with your coffee supplier.
                        I agree.

                        That leads me to a question I forgot;
                        purevannie do you have a coffee supplier yet?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                          This link is to an article published in 2008.  It provides sobering reading.

                          http://www.yaffa.com.au/btob/pdf/fsn_june08.pdf

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                            Be careful about the coffee supplier and machine together if the machine and grinder is free as long as you buy your coffee from them and at a certain min amount...

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What commercial machine should i buy? 2grp? 3 grp?

                              Originally posted by 062831211B0C2B313721440 link=1274988597/12#12 date=1275037932
                              This link is to an article published in 2008.  It provides sobering reading.

                              http://www.yaffa.com.au/btob/pdf/fsn_june08.pdf
                              Speaking as a former banker who grew up in the food service industry, thats a good article.
                              It highlights a lot of the things outsiders dont see from their seat out the front of the cafe / restaurant.

                              Site sponsor OMaras make a living auctioning equipment from failed businesses.
                              They have an auction every Monday.

                              I dont want to scare purevannie off but have them go in with their eyes wide open after doing ALL the appropriate homework.

                              Comment

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