Importing espresso machines

[Magyar0300]

Very amusing thread from start to finish. 281
i am very patriotic......to a point. I believe in buying locally but there are definitely some massive differences to the cost of some imported items vs buying them in the States for example.

I agree wholeheartedly with the CS sponsors that we pay the premium for their expertise, customer service and warranty repair on the items they sell....And you know what if I was in a position to pay $2-$3k for a machine from a local supplier that I knew I would get treated like a customer who deserved the best service I would gladly do so, even if I knew I could buy from O/S $800-$1000 cheaper because deep down I know it is a costly luxury item I have invested in and want it to last and be backed by good service.

I run a large service/project business supplying trade related services so I understand customer service very well.

the one thing that I have seen consistently throughout this entire thread is the site sponsors caustic replies laid out on a public forum for all your potential customers to read. IMHO not a very clever marketing strategy.

Like Fresh_Coffee said in #281 (As long as they do it nicely) the same thing applies fellas.

While I can read the frustration in your words and appreciate how you would feel from some of the antagonist comments or should I say naive comments I would never in a million years publicly publish responses as have been placed on this forum whereby my potential customers could form a negative opinion about my business from words spruced on a forum. I understand you are sponsors of this site but let's just make it plain as day we the members make the site.

now I may be new to this forum and have a total of 3 posts but I have as much right to have an opinion about anything I choose to. If it gets published by the moderators well we'll see.

After reading this I would not purchase a machine from a sponsor in this thread as I would be thinking to myself am I going to get treated like an idiot because I don't have 20 years pulling coffee??

We are here to be educated by you guys not belittled.

while I agree with the sponsors as a businessmen protecting your business the entire Australian economy is under pressure to adapt and change to an ever present unpredictable market.

rant over.

[Yelta]

I dun think I get 'any' after sales service whatsoever.

I know I do

I'm in a similar country location Miltah, I'm not exactly a frequent shopper for things coffee nowadays, I have pretty much everything I want or need.
On the few occasions I have needed something over the past couple of years I've located what I want from among the CS sponsor list, advice, communication, after sales service (not that much has been needed) and shipping has been brilliant.

[Andy]

I dun think I get 'any' after sales service whatsoever.

I think you do... I certainly hope you will continue to get the same level service via email and phone as you enjoyed prior to spending your hard earned as from what I hear, all the CS site sponsors are happy to go the extra mile even after the sale.

[miltah]

I live somewhere whereby it is impossible to walk into any site sponsors shop. Wait, actually there is no shop. There is not even a David Jones or Myer.
I rely on the internet for all my information and most if not all of my purchases because it is not available here but also often cheaper.
I dun think I get 'any' after sales service whatsoever.

However, I still got my machine and grinder from Australia because (one of the site sponsors) was promptly replying my emails and even on the phone.
I figured if I had any problems, it would still be cheaper to send for repairs here than overseas (should it happen).
How much $$ you place on the above is different for everyone.

[Yelta]

So many experts with so little knowledge of the subject matter, my advice to the self professed import experts is, if you reckon it's that easy, put your money where your mouth is.
I know, a few have done it successfully, however I suspect there are far more who have had a bad experience and are off somewhere licking their wounds, of course we will never hear those stories.

[Fresh_Coffee]

Rubbish, simply not true in this industry.

[/COLOR]It might be true for stuff in white good stores and the sorts of appliances that Kmart sell but in the pointy-end coffee market Australia has too small a volume to warrant the manufacturer complying with any of our regulations. Onus is nearly always on the importer who is often also the retailer.....[/COLOR].....

And....smaller import numbers on this type of equipment, than respondents think


Thank you Andy for annunciating ideas that if someone like me or other professional importers were to say them, we wouldnt be believed.

The trouble here is there is so much discussion (read as *interference*) from people looking in from the outside.....Any layman reading this would think most of the respondents in this thread had experience in the specific field of professional coffee machine importation and coffee machine import BUSINESS.

A lot of the comments made here (such as the one above) are laughable, and I wonder how our collection of forum experts would suffer the same level of interference in their own professions......from outsiders?

Oh yeah I forgot..... these people are experts in their own fields as well as in mine, whereas people like me in actual coffee machine business dont know what we're doing, in addition to knowing nuthin about anyone elses professions, and we're just a bunch of rip off merchants anyway...silly me, dunno why I never understood that before. Cant win either way.

[Andy]

This thread is wonderfully circular.

It wasn't an accident that I posted the "round and round in circles" post.

Most manufactures absorb the cost of various certifications as a cost of doing business. Although not impossible, most importers/agents do not bear the cost of electrical certification.

Rubbish, simply not true in this industry.

It might be true for stuff in white good stores and the sorts of appliances that Kmart sell but in the pointy-end coffee market Australia has too small a volume to warrant the manufacturer complying with any of our regulations. Onus is nearly always on the importer who is often also the retailer.

Nearly all the arguments in this thread that think we are being ripped off are from people that:

a: Have never imported anything for resale
b: Think 1000's of items are sold.

In the commercial machine end of the Australian market La Marzocco, Synesso etc are ordered after deposit paid. Single Australian agents for those machines don't even carry stock and instead make buyers wait 3-4 months after ordering for delivery.

In the pointy-end domestic market machinery is nearly always already here and that comes at a cost... which is passed to the buyer.

I assume that eventually the self imports will make the availability to touch, try and walk away with a top end domestic espresso machine a thing of the past if buyers only consider the price tag.

[MrJack]

Re: Importing espresso machines

The problems is that they're everywhere else.

[TC]

To be honest, I don't put an awful lot of faith in your average retailer as providing 'expert advice'...

Retailers who are actually invested in their product, and who genuinely help their customers, finding it difficult to convince people who are not used to anything resembling real service (and thus do not place any value on it), that this service is worth paying a premium for.

I have met or spoken with a goodly proportion of the CS retailer cohort.... No "average retailers" to be found....

[MrJack]

Re: Importing espresso machines

If I had not sought decent advice and had options personally demonstrated to me I would have most likely wasted money on something that wasn't suitable or have got caught up with buying something well in excess of my real needs. As consumers I think we sometimes get too carried away with scouring the internet for opinions and lowest cost and subsequently we dont value the costs associted with providing genuine face to face expert advice, service and the convenience of buying locally. You simply don't get good advice or customer service with a foreign purchase from the cheapest supplier. They will always steer you towards the item with the best profit margin for them.

To be honest, I don't put an awful lot of faith in your average retailer as providing 'expert advice'. I imagine that a lot of people share this prejudice; probably the result of large chain stores who employ people to fill shops and pretend they know what they are on about.

Ive been on the other side of that equation too (7years in retail hardware), and I have no doubt it is the fault of the retailer, rather than the staff.

I always do my research, whether I buy online or in a store. Its then usually pretty obvious how well the store employee knows their product.

I can see how this would lead to the kind of discussion we see here. Retailers who are actually invested in their product, and who genuinely help their customers, finding it difficult to convince people who are not used to anything resembling real service (and thus do not place any value on it), that this service is worth paying a premium for.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I would strongly advise against using any Cypriot bank.

I would strongly advise against drinking Cypriot coffee (Turkish coffee infused with Ouzo served on a broken dinner plate).

[stevel]

Why not? I always have my coffee and drink it.

[Ashes]

From a buyers perspective import vs local come down to a few key decisions for me when buying something more than just a consumable or throwaway item
- customer service. Is the item likely to require ongoing support, service or repair in the future beyond my own means or expertise?
- do I value or need the personal input and advice of the salesperson in assessing my needs and requirement?

As a "novice" coffesnob I'm convinced I saved myself a lot of time and money with my recent purchases. If I had not sought decent advice and had options personally demonstrated to me I would have most likely wasted money on something that wasn't suitable or have got caught up with buying something well in excess of my real needs. As consumers I think we sometimes get too carried away with scouring the internet for opinions and lowest cost and subsequently we dont value the costs associted with providing genuine face to face expert advice, service and the convenience of buying locally. You simply don't get good advice or customer service with a foreign purchase from the cheapest supplier. They will always steer you towards the item with the best profit margin for them.

You can't have your coffee and drink it too....

[mcm991]

Hello Andi,

You will in time understand in time that your R58 is not of identical specification to the Australian model. Our experiences with 2 damaged EU spec machines we were asked to bring back to life was that they performed very poorly and there is no way that I'd put our company name to one. I saw exactly the same performance in a prototype evaluation machine I sampled. This is why there has been a delay of a year from launch in bringing the R58 to the Australian market. Further information can be found in the discussion if you are interested.

Our Australian machines are a very small batch, produced specifically to the requirements of the importer. By nature, small custom runs in different spec are more expensive. There is also a cost associated with local warranty and after sales support.

Resellers (as we are) do not have a huge margin to play with. Many buyers fail to acknowledge this.

Chris... you will be happy to know that you have indeed made the world just a little bit better place.

All R58 machines worldwide are now being built to Australian specs. There is room for passion in this business after all - and you can take the credit for it.

Happy Easter.

[mcm991]

A simple test for the argument that is pro importing or purchasing of a grey importer in Australia is to call their Australian contact which is not even in Australia in some cases and tell them that you need some after sales service or you need a simple spare part you will soon see what level of support you have it will be very limited. The old saying you get what you pay for is very relevant in this issue.

I don't think anyone would argue with you on that point. At least not on page 6 of this thread.