Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

    Hi, Just wondering if anyone can help. I have a Verona machine and the group heads seem to get too hot. I dont have the original manual for it but do have a manual for a later model (which doesnt seem to help). Would adjusting the pressure stat make any difference...and where can I find it (the new manual says "pressure stat can be accessed by removing the cup tray"......lots of things can be accessed by removing the cup tray??).
    Many Thanks, Martin5

  • #2
    Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

    it should look like one of these...

    not sure how you adjust a mater pstat i assume you turn a screw



    The Sarai you remove the top cover and turn the screw to increase / lower pressure and temp,



    please be advised that they are 240v and can kill you, if you dont understand dont touch !!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

      when you say to hot, is it boiling the water exiting the group head when you flush ?

      tell us how hot is to hot?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

        Hi Maheel, thanks for your reply. I havent taken the temp of the water coming out of the group head (probably be a good idea), but the group heads are so hot you cannot put your hand on them for any length of time. The taste of the coffee changes considerably between this machine and the one at work (Azkoyen Vienna). It is more concentrated and consistently a little sour (same bean, same extraction tiime, same barista) The Azkoyen has a shroud over the group but you can touch the shower screen without any problem.

        The machine in the pics you posted is quite different to the Verona....am I looking at the same thing in this pic (attached)?

        Thanks, Martin5

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

          That is the P Stat but without the cover, careful 240V there

          Unless you have a proper Temp Portafilter (Scace device) forget about trying to measure the temp accurately.

          What sort of pressure is the machine cycling from when it is turned on. That is element turns on at ?? 1 bar and turns off at 1.2 bar etc??

          Word of warning too dont just play with the P Stat if you make a change count the number of turns or partial turns you make so you can go back

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

            Hi, once up to temp the machine cycles from 0.9 and stops heating when it gets to around 1.3 bar. As a general rule...is it counter clockwise to lower the temp?

            No worries about 240v...the machine is in a van and I unplug it just to make sure. Have been electrocuted once and I dont want to repeat the experience.

            Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

              Welcome Martin.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

              Ive just reduced the size of the image above for you. Can you try and keep images down to a size that will fit inside a 600x450 pixel window please? Reduces the bandwidth hit and allows pages to load more quickly.

              Thanks
              Mal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                Hello Martin5 and welcome to Coffeesnobs  

                I would like to invite you to telephone your nearest commercial espresso machine service agent and seek their help. If you are in Sydney, that is extra good because the importer of these machines can be found in Liverpool and Im sure will be only too happy to help. They also have a network of service agents around the traps and it may be advantageous to call them.

                More specifically you say "the groups heads seem to get too hot"....then mention that the coffee is different to that made on another machine.... Are you adopting a technqiue to best manage this equipment to try and get the best out of it, or are you simply duplicating the same technique used with the other machine and its grinder???????? If so, your problem may be technique related rather than equipment related! They dont all work the same  and require differing levels of understanding & management in use

                Sometimes, answering a question directly (like showing a piccie of a pressurestat and telling someone which way to turn the screw to get an effect) may not actually address the actual concern and in any case, pressurestat adjustments are really only fine adjustments wrt resulting brew temperature and will not usually noticeably cool a group or if they do, are probably of such a magnitude that something else is affected as a result.

                Really, best to leave it to the experts who will take a "wholistic approach" to sort and will be able to confirm or not, that your feelings are correct or otherwise.



                Regardz,
                Attilio
                very first CS site sponsor

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                  Thats a lot of variation in the Pstat, the Izzo I have varies about .15 bar from on to off.

                  As Attilio mentions above making changes to the Pstat will only make small changes .1 bar reduction changes boiler temp (not brew temp) by around 1 degree or so. Well worth the phone call to the importer too.

                  Failing getting info from the importer cut it back slightly let it stabilise and taste rather than look for numbers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                    Yep, Id reckon that p/stat needs a diaphragm kit. The old one is probably as hard as....

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                      changing the boiler pressure/temp wont make a huge difference. Some machines require a huge cooling flush just due to design flaws...

                      as a side note, the e61 group (as is on your verona) will always be way too hot to touch for any period of time, even if theyre running at proper temp.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                        Thanks Mischa, I think you have unlocked the mystery.

                        I did lower the boiler pressure a little which has improved the consistency of the shots, but the cooling flush is the key.

                        I had always run water through the group head between shots but, it seems, not for anywhere near long enough, for this particular machine, especially when it has been idle for a while. Can take 30 seconds (give or take) for the water to settle.

                        Thanks to everyone for their input.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                          Yeah im not sure why some e61s require such a long flush and some dont, when theyre supposedly more or less the same. Grimacs, futurmats and wegas ive used havent needed much of a flush at all, but bfcs and veronas ive seen do require a long flush. :-?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                            Originally posted by 57736979727B1A0 link=1292391946/12#12 date=1293683706
                            but bfcs and veronas ive seen do require a long flush.  :-?
                            No BFC machines Ive tried have required much of a flush, if any (Grimac was designed and manufactured by the same people who now operate BFC). For example, right out of the box my Diadema Junior Extra has only ever required a maximum of about 50-60ml if its been sitting idle for longer than intended.

                            From Switch-on to the first shot after about half-an-hour, requires at most 20-30ml and after that for consecutive shots, no flush is required at all. My understanding is, that this is very typical for most BFC machines supplied by their current importer ( CosmoreX Coffee). Have got to be careful when making generalised statements of that kind....

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Verona Express 2Group too hot!!

                              Originally posted by 01253F2F242D4C0 link=1292391946/12#12 date=1293683706
                              Yeah im not sure why some e61s require such a long flush and some dont, when theyre supposedly more or less the same. Grimacs, futurmats and wegas ive used havent needed much of a flush at all, but bfcs and veronas ive seen do require a long flush.  :-?
                              Its a dark art Mischa

                              Perceived cooling flush or lack thereof in e-61 machines essentially comes down to 3 main factors:[*]HX design[*]the nature of thermosyphon restriction (if any)[*]boiler pressure

                              These and other factors will combine to influence group idle temperature and also thermostability within a shot.

                              Hot runners may do so due to the lack of thermosyphon restriction and cooling flush can often be minimised by juggling boiler pressure and restrictors and then monitoring the results with a Scace device.

                              On the other hand, if the HX design is poor, it will often make a dog of a machine which you cant do much with.

                              Its why some e-61 machines are good and others are nasty nasty (and not on range for us) :

                              Chris

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X