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considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

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  • considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

    I am currently considering purchasing a vintage 1960s Faema e61 (notionally) on behalf of another party. The machine is fully restored (with some modern parts) and in good working order and good cosmetic condition. I am a lever man myself and have no experience with the e61s (despite knowing they are legends and superb looking) and commercial pump machines in general (beyond an old Boema I once owned. Australian made- and never missed a beat. But ugly as sin).

    Would any one be willing to give me a ball park figure on what a machine like that would be worth these days in Australia? There are not many on offer for me to compare with... as I understand it single group machines are likely worth more than dual group (or more) machines. I have soem experience with the market for domestic machines but not commercial ones...

    a penny for your thoughts...

  • #2
    Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

    Originally posted by 6E726F6F78736974737C7E727B7B78781D0 link=1326774042/0#0 date=1326774042
    fully restored
    There is fully restored and there is FULLY restored. Ask Chris @ Talk Coffee about the grief he had with his fully restored machine... and what it looked like inside when he had problems.

    Originally posted by 6E726F6F78736974737C7E727B7B78781D0 link=1326774042/0#0 date=1326774042
    ball park figure on what a machine like that would be worth
    Talk to George @ The Coffee Man
    He has done plenty of ground-up real restorations on these and would be able to give you an idea of market value. I was there at Christmas and he had a couple of them half finished... stunning resto work and better than new.

    Good luck!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

      Originally posted by 230C061B620 link=1326774042/1#1 date=1326784574
      There is fully restored and there is FULLY restored.  Ask Chris @ Talk Coffee about the grief he had with his fully restored machine... and what it looked like inside when he had problems.
      Too true Andy, too true :

      Our "fully restored" 2 group arrived with a completely worn out mercury switch and pretty much every seal and o-ring in the thing was shagged as well. On hookup it was akin to running through the sprinklers in the park. Then there were the incorrectly assembled and worn group pistons etc which wouldnt manage better than circa 3 bar.

      We replaced the switch with a pressurestat, did a heap of work to get it to hold water and not give us a shower and then set to the machine with Scace and a stack of different restrictors to get it to behave. They run really hot and are not suited to Aussie coffee without modification.

      The week that our new Pompeii arrived, we fired the Faema up for a last hurrah. I popped out for a couple of hours and on return was greeted by a very wet floor and dead machine. Turned out that stainless rather than brass bolts had been used on the element and one had corroded to destruction. The rust was deposited throughout the boiler. :

      We took the opportunity to have it bead blasted, repaired it properly with brass bolts and then reassembled it- so now I consider it to be restored.

      1 and 2 groups in excellent condition have typically sold in the vicinity of $7k. A 3 group might be a tad more negotiable as it would be a lower demand item.

      I second Andys comments on Georges work which is beautiful.

      Jack, do feel free to give me a buzz if I can assist in any way and should your mate be interested in a mint condition 2 group, mines on the market as I dont want to see it spend years in a box waiting for a new home.

      Cheers

      Chris

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

        Hey guys, thanks for all the comments, I recently got in 2 fully restored 4 group E61s for a client and we have had to fully restore them again. It all depends on what your client is after and price is usually dependent on condition, how original and complete it is. We restored the 3 group that went into Dinos Deli in Melbourne and with the right tinkering we were able to get a great stable temperature from the groups, usually 2 mm restrictors on both ends of the top pipe, and they were pulling over 30 kilos a week through it. If you need any further info on details or what to look for just ask, imported and restored over 20 E61s at last count, always happy to help
        Cheers George

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        • #5
          Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

          Thanks all for your comments and thoughts- well noted. I had already factored in my mind that fully restored may not be everything is should be and is a subjective term- luckily the price leaves some room for further work if required- but I will take extra care now. I dont want to end up with (yet) another highly complex project machine on my hands

          Is fully restoring one of these old marvels like restoring (and hotting up) an old Holden Statesman- ie- very expensive- as in a gumtree car ad: "1971 Statesman- FULLY restored- Spent 25K- regrettable sell for 9K ONO"? (I want to buy one those one day- let the doomed fanatic spend 25K on the perfect car- and then drive away in a better than original car show standard classic for 7K (the ONO)... 8-) )...

          Coffee Man: can I ask- do you also restore lever machine from the day? I have a 1950s Gaggia I am about to restore. PM and/or give me a call if you do these sorts of machine.

          The old mercury P-Stats are pretty cool- and I am generally in favour of keeping things original when it comes to restorations of classics, however in the case of a working commercial espresso machine it is more important to have reliability, safety and serviceability- than mercury p-stats and giant lead weight pressure valve systems I suppose?

          "Our "fully restored" 2 group arrived with a completely worn out mercury switch and pretty much every seal and o-ring in the thing was shagged as well. On hookup it was akin to running through the sprinklers in the park. Then there were the incorrectly assembled and worn group pistons etc which wouldnt manage better than circa 3 bar."

          whoa... some people are truly unscrupulous... I dont think the one I am looking at will be that bad- I have some faith in my supplier. I am pretty sure it will run at start up without leaks- certainly not a sprinkler system... Beyond that though it will be hard to know for certain how good it is without dissembling and having a look inside... my budget may allow for a secondary level of restoration and tweaking- perhaps from George :-)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

            chances are, buying anything old and collectable (cars, coffee machines, whatever), theres bound to be things wrong with it unless the seller had only just done a ground up no expense spared rebuild... theres always a seal thats gone hard and rusted off bolts or things like that. If i were you i would just expect something to be wrong or to go wrong, and haggle accordingly. Dont forget, espresso machines are really very cheap and easy to restore compared to a car (seems youre a car nut like me)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

              very cheap and easy to restore
              I would agree, but cheap depends on whos doing the labour. I have fully restored a fair few domestic levers now just for kicks, but if I was charging even a modest hourly rate for my time to a customer, there is no way known it would be a reasonable cost to them.

              I would think Chris experience would be pretty common WRT restored imported vintage machines.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                The 3 group transaction got cancelled for the time being... but I couldnt resist and grabbed a single group 1968/70 e61. Machine finally arrived yesterday and looks stunning. In fact I thought it must have been a much later machine the condition is so good. But it is stamped 68 on the boiler. The machine has all its gas fitting intact - the gas p-stat/flow regulator (?) thing looks great. Much finer looking system than the relatively crude gas set ups I have seen on older Lever machines. The original mercury p-stat is installed but I received a new Sirai one as well. Beautiful machinery to look at inside- like a classic car.

                So far this looks like a good renovation work. Internally it looks almost like new. Not a rusty nut or bolt to be seen.

                I am not sure what I will do with her: but whilst I decide I want to test the machine and try it out! ;-) I have a question to start with: the machine has two power cables: One has no plug fitted but standard wires: green/yellow earth, brown and blue current. The other power cable is more heavy duty and is fitted with what looks like a 3 phase plug/connector. Heavy duty.

                What am I looking at here?

                I can post some pics of the machine later if folks are interested.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                  Hi Jack, nice score - ive been tempted a few times with those single group E61s.Im guessing the extra power cord will be for wiring in the pump/motor.The E61 runs with an external pump, even the 1 group.

                  Pics? of course we want pics!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                    As stated one is power, the other is pump motor.

                    If its an old style motor without any kind of a plug/socket connecting arrangement, I find the most convenient way to wire up the pump motor is to fit a short flex cord to the motor end probably not more than 6 inches long, and fit a 10 amp type electrical plug to that. Correspondingly, fit a 10 amp electrical socket to the end of the flex coming down from the machine.

                    That way if / when you disconnect and / or move things around you have the convenience of being able to quickly unplug the pump motor, and also because there is a socket on the end of that flex coming out of the machine (instead of a plug) , no one can mistakenly plug that into a wall socket.

                    The thick cord could be 15 amp rated flex OR it could be a 5 wire flex instead of a 3 although I dont know why if its only a 1 group machine. From memory it would only be a 10 amper and only requires a simple single phase connection. Suggest take a look at the writing on the element flange it will tell you volts / watts.

                    One more thing take a careful look around the top end of the heat exchanger and make sure there are no leak tracks. It was a common enough problem.


                    Hope that helps.

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                    • #11
                      Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                      thanks for the tips- the idea to connect the pump is excellent I will do that. no time today but here is a sneak peak:











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                      • #12
                        Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                        Beautiful restoration Jack. It looks superb.

                        They do run hot, but I can head you in the right direction with thermosyphon restriction if required.

                        Enjoy! 8-)

                        Chris

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                        • #13
                          Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                          ooOOoooOOOoo pretty

                          Faemina in the background too! What a beautiful duo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                            Excuse my ignorance but what does the lever thing under the dials do? Im seriously thinking of a 1 group Legend myself and although the new ones dont have that lever thing Im just curious.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: considering a Faema E61 3 group machine- have a few questions

                              walshman- as the owner of this machine... I can confidently say: I also want to know what that lever is for! So I can forgive your ignorance.... : I am guessing it is something to do with pre-infusion? It actuates a switch when the group lever is toggled... so far thats all I know...

                              I am refurbishing the pump that came with the machine- it is an original vintage Faema pump fitted with a rotary head. I am repainting the base and cleaning it up- it was the only part that had any signs of its true age.

                              Then some plumbing bits and pieces and I will be ready to fire the machine up.

                              Comment

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