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choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

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  • TOK
    replied
    I didnt see it that way.

    And from an industry perpective, this topic is far bigger than you may ever know and really doesnt have anything much to do with actual cafe cup quality.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cooper69S
    replied
    yeah a bit of a blast from the past here. I think I recall reading this thread a year ago and had the same feeling about it as I do now... if I understand correctly, much of the advice is basically this: the machines the OP asked about are technically superior but he shouldn't buy one. He should buy a (technically) inferior one instead, because a good operator on a HX machine can produce better results than a poor-to-average operator on a fancy multiboiler machine. The logic fail is the implication that those average cafes with fancy machines would do better with cheaper ones.
    If there was any mention of a tight budget (there wasn't) then it would be fair to recommend starting with something cheaper, but some of the comments come across as too defensive, like they felt compelled to defend the honour of the good old HX. It becomes frustrating to read sometimes.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeB
    replied
    Read this thread from go to whoa, like walking through a minefield.

    from a business perspective, I would actually go back to posts #2 & 3. and stop there. You have all the information you need right there.

    no need to be wanking over polished stainless steel and digital accuracy.

    IME the best baristas go by feel. It is rapidly becoming a lost art.

    $0.05

    Leave a comment:


  • BangalowBarista
    replied
    I wonder what happened in the end? It's like a movie with no finale.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    well said Pat

    Leave a comment:


  • askthecoffeeguy
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    I could probably afford to buy a new machine for all the money Ive spent on crap coffees produced using a synesso, or a slayer, or  a LM for that matter ...

    seems to me that a lot of modern baristi are more interested in combing their collective moustaches or twirling the ends of their asymmetrical bobs than crafting a quality coffee

    conversely I had an espresso made on a 30 year old e61 machine the other day and both the coffee and the machine were mint

    doesnt matter what kind of equipment you use if its not well maintained, and operated with respect for the raw materials, then youre not going to end up with a quality coffee

    seems to me also that humblebarista has left the building which makes me wonder if

    a)  the argument is not largely academic, and

    b)  whos cash was he splashing around anyway? as its not clear to me that he was the one putting up the money (sounded to me like the coffee supplier was the one fitting the bill!)

    I for one am in the process of retro-fitting a four group LM Linea with mechanical paddles at the moment - most of the equipment going into that project comes straight from the Strada line-up - and I love the fact that this customisability is in-built into the LM range

    and as others have said the quality of the coffee that youre using, combined with the person driving the machine, is easily as important as the equipment that youre using

    and as to this machine being better than that machine - I think its all stuff and nonsense

    you can own the most expensive car in the world, but if you dont know how to drive it, then its going nowhere...

    ACg

    Leave a comment:


  • bluecoin
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    one at Sydney CBD Central Station next to TAFE, with Multi boiler machine + Swift + Has Garanti 5 KG, roast on side, looks great but the coffee just average, looks like poor operator

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    as if by magic.....

    Pretty much off topic now I know, but as the thread has gone down this way......

    I have been interstate a few days and ended up in a very trendy part of some town. As if by magic  a cafe appeared in front of me, all decked out in the livery of choice for those that want atleast in the Australian market, to show the target audience that...."...they trooly care about the coffee..."

    A 3 group multi boiler machine of the appropriate brand, no less than 2 swift grinders, and a regular cafe grinder.

    A fantastic place to test this never ending experiment.

    In we went and ordered coffees, and disappointed we were when 2 cups of coffee came out that could have been produced on any HX machine by any half reasonable operator.

    Nevertheless, $7.60 well spent in the never ending quest to try and find that truly remarkable coffee that is said to be produced in a commercial cafe situation, where certain types of equipment have been specified, for the express purpose of indicating to the paying clientelle, that the operators really care about the coffee.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluecoin
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Originally posted by 706D6C71696B34323B020 link=1332216562/0#0 date=1332216562
    20.03.2012 at 15:09:22 Mark & Quote Quote
    hey all, first post so be gentle,

    I am opening a new coffee shop and have the choice of a Synesso Sabre or a La Marzocco Linea both Three group.  Ive been or a FB70 for a while now and love it but from what ive read and heard the Sabre is a very good machine. Advice nee
    i Own La marzocco Linea , LM is good but as you can have Options from yours Coffee suppler  i think Go to Synesso Sabre 


    cheers...

    Leave a comment:


  • bluecoin
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Originally posted by 7A4F4245716D4148484B4B2E0 link=1332216562/20#20 date=1333919190
    Ok CSers everywhere. Come clean and admit here and now to bc that your coffee is rubbish because you do not own a Synesso.

    bc, if you think a line is a guarantee of good coffee, youre dreaming mate.

    I hearby admit my coffee must be bad because I have owned a number of HX machines.  I know this because bc told me so... Roll Eyes

    Ill also admit the same on behalf of every WBC competitor for the last few years.

    Lastly, Ill admit that bcs coffee is rubbish as well as he also has a HX machine.

    Anybody else want to fess up?  Huh

    if you think you coffee is good, CS mamber will love to try, love to know coffee shop around sydney are you supply? ( HX Machine and 60kg+ a week )
    i will try one day.

    cheers.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Originally posted by 0E3A2D3B20170B272E2E2D2D480 link=1332216562/26#26 date=1333931876
    no Jon, its because of th extra added character that your portion of sugar adds....now thats fessing up!
    I know, its true, but then Im a Philistine, seriously contemplating migrating to Italy. ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    no Jon, its because of th extra added character that your portion of sugar adds....now thats fessing up!

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Originally posted by 46737E794D517D74747777120 link=1332216562/20#20 date=1333919190
    Anybody else want to fess up?
    Yep, my coffee is rubbish, only reason I keep drinking the stuff is Im a masochist. ;D :

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Graeme quote from above:

    ............For the record I think Fresh_Coffee has posted the best overall response to the OP so far and I hope he/she takes that advice on board............End of quote


    Thanks, appreciate that coming from someone who has been involved in the industry.


    And for the rest of it if you will permit:

    Some of these machines are capable enough to be termed " laboratory spec" equipment. If used by appropriately trained operators in their white lab coats, they may well deliver all the promises that seem to roll of everyones tongues in forums like this, if you have the Technical Officers in the Lab with the appropriate palates to judge the espresso (not the milks coffees).

    But in the real world where you have very ordinary people driving the equipment, the resulting wet coffee is left to compete with that produced by any other good brand espresso machine especially HX type, driven by other ordinary people, and even the odd skilled operators.

    Whats that mean?

    It means the brands / models are hyped up so that they are on everyones lips as being the absolute pinnacle of wet coffee production, while in reality they are a marketing excercise used to try and win clients because of the equipment any particular cafe uses.

    Its like if taxi operators started pushing they use only rolls royce or ferrari motor vehicles for their taxis, in the hope that clients will walk past all others to jump into theirs because they are so far technically advanced than other more run of the mill models.

    And in the end you still get your ride from the airport to your business meeting, and it didnt mean a thing except, the taxi driver with the ferrari or rolls got your money.

    A dose of reality please and in the end, the last couple of posts here from Talk Coffee really do reflect the reality of it all and that is that all the money in the world and the best fitout and the most expensive technically advanced espresso machines & grinders with all the internet cred, are not going to save you in a technical sense if you cant use it properly (or for that matter have the clientelle with a palate that can actually tell through the latte...).

    But they have been turned into effective marketing tools. And while cafe owners think they have to show their target audience they care about the coffee by investing in such equipment, at the "appropriate" level of investment, they keep the importers and the manufacturers of said equipment laughing all the way to the bank.

    And that has absolutely nothing to do with the coffee itself......and is one of the great examples of the BS mill in full swing.

    Edit 1.
    One actual example of this in my own locality:

    Client has LM and Roburrs
    Clients "Baristas" adopt the attitude apparently expected.
    Client makes a big deal of using a special exclusive signature blend
    Coffee comes in plain packets for appropriate level of secrecy exclusivity of course;

    The reality:
    a) the blend is nothing special;
    b) Resulting espresso (as in black coffee) is bitter, muddy, indistinct (in a technical sense it has been over roasted) and what this means, is it wouldnt matter how good the components in the blend were before roasting;

    BUT....the coffee is just strong enough to cut well through the milk to give a well balanced milk coffee (in terms of coffee to milk character) . What do most clients drink? Capps and lattes.

    The "baristas" are good "milk artists"

    What does this mean:
    The espresso itself is below standard, the milks are fine. The cafe owner has created an aura of mystique, exclusive blend, "high end" brand equipment. The cafe as a busines goes well enough.

    But the espresso itself is below par.......and what does the coffee has to do with it?

    A good example of smoke and mirrors to get clients.

    Could they be doing just as well if not better on the black coffees with a good HX machine....OF COURSE they could.

    Edit 2
    In my own locality, staff (baristas)  in these type cafes dont / wont enter the barista comps and appear to be insulated from the main stream. The barista comps seem to be populated by operators that really are interested in the coffee and in the main come from cafes where they mostly use.....HX machines....

    And when they go back to their cafes, they take their journey in making better coffee, back to whatever equipment they are using, the attitude being they are trying to better their coffee making skills irrespective.

    There is a large difference in attitude across the cafe industry.

    Bottom line, choose whatever equipment you want but dont get real end quality in the cup (and all the different variables that entails) confused with brand iconism and image marketing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronin
    replied
    Re: choices Synesso Sabre or La Marzocco Linea

    Depends on the barista behind the synesso beans used and my mood  . Ive had crap coffee from most machines including slayer, synesso, LM (not had anything off a strata as yet) and hx machines, but had more good stuff from high end machines in a cafe/espresso bar. Perhaps thats just Brisbane.
    best hx coffee Ive had is at home on the expobar minore.

    FWIW  baristas that compete that i know complain about the current machine being used. But they dont get a choice

    Leave a comment:

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