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  • Requiem Cimbali M27 Start

    Hi all,
    After I had this machine for more than 20 years I'm gonna stop to use it and perhaps sell it.
    Is still in perfect state, no rust, no problems and made no more than 7.500 shots!
    Point is it takes to much room in my kitchen and spends to much electricity...
    I bought a Cimbali Junior D (see pictures) and I'll get it tomorrow.
    It seems to be working properly but when I'll open it I will see How it looks inside.
    I have a couple of questions about it: Does this one have a vibratory pump?
    And the boiler is made from stainless steel or copper?
    Thanks in advance and regards from sunny Portugal
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Hi again,
    No answers, so I suppose there are not many Cimbali Junior connoisseurs...
    Anyway I opened and tested the machine and I can say there is a vibratory pump and I think the boiler is copper with a nickel coating.
    I also think there is no need to do a de-scaling, the water comes pretty clean out of the boiler and the only thing will buy is a rubber ring for the group.
    As attachment a few pictures to show how good Cimbali machines are built, still looking good after 25 years of service...
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Cimbali Junior - missing part

      Hello:

      From your photos (dark tan doser tub top, older vibe pump) I 'think' your machine may be pre-year 2000.

      I strongly suggest you inspect it for scale unless you have a good idea of it's previous history and maintenance routines.

      Even then, in your shoes I'd check the pressurestat and all valves for scale and wash them in white vinegar or citric acid solution.

      One thing I think you 'must' do is get yourself a 1/2", surface mount, 135ºC manual reset, bi-metallic safety thermostat to place where the (missing) original non-manual reset thermostat should be, at the heating element manifold (right side of the boiler).

      I'd post a link but I have not been able to, so ...

      Have a look at: 3w|dot|thermodisk|dot|com|slash|en-US|slash|products|slash|bimetal|slash|pages|slash| 36TMR|dot|aspx

      There are also other good brands available in the EU, like Campini.

      Having this in place will keep you from very unpleasant surprises should your Sirai ever get stuck.

      Cheers,

      CIV

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the explanations! Initially I was planning to do a descaling but because the general state was good I thought it would be not necessary. About history I only was told that the machine has been connected to a water softener. Traces of scale I only saw by the hot water pipe outlet. I agree that it would be better to do some descaling of the boiler but, on the other hand, I also heard that by taking the boiler out for descaling it can give problems by reassembling. Is it not possible to do some flushing "in situ" to the whole circuit?
        About the thermostat I agree 100%. I looked at Campini site but I could not find any 135º thermostat. I don't understand exactly what you mean: is it a kind of thermostat used in fridges?
        Regards,
        Valimar

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by valimar View Post
          I also heard that by taking the boiler out for descaling it can give problems by reassembling. Is it not possible to do some flushing "in situ" to the whole circuit?
          There's a sticky thread in the pointy end forum on descaling HX's.

          Originally posted by valimar View Post
          About the thermostat I agree 100%. I looked at Campini site but I could not find any 135º thermostat. I don't understand exactly what you mean: is it a kind of thermostat used in fridges?
          Not the type of thermostat used in fridges, what CIV is referring to would most probably be a thermal cutout type which looks something like this;

          Be sure it has a sufficiently high current rating for your boiler element though, and a manual reset unit might be a better move.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks jbrewster, like the one you showed on the picture are easy to get but to find one with manual reset will be more difficult.
            Tomorrow I'll go to a special shop where they have this kind of stuff. Good idea to remember me it has to support 1300 watts!
            Cheers

            Comment


            • #7
              Should be pretty easy to find one suitable for that sort of load (that's a smaller element than my Isomac Zaffiro (Single Boiler) ) the problem with auto-reset cutouts is that if you've got a Pstat failure (though that looks like a Sirai 'stat so it's a whole lot less likely) they'll cycle the element, on until break temperature, off until reset temperature, which isn't really healthy for, but if all else fails it'll do.

              Many small single boiler machines have a manual reset thermal cutout which opens around 145deg and most of those have elements ~1100W, the Silvia has one but it's a screw in jobbie, maybe look at spare parts for Gaggia or similar?

              Comment


              • #8
                I think I found a simple solution: I have two old Italian espresso machines (Poccino) and one of them is not working anymore. Above the thermoblock there were 2 thermal cutouts. I check them and one cuts off by 135 celcius and the other by 160. I think I' going to follow CIV advice and use the first one. I am lucky because I can screw it directly in the hole used for the earth connection, having the same thread. Not having a reset button seems to me not a problem. See picture.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello:

                  Yes, the 135º C value is the same as the original Cimbali safety thermostat, but it is not of the 'screw on' variety.
                  Please do have a look at the link I have posted in my previous post, that's exactly the model you need.

                  Not having a reset button seems to me not a problem.
                  I'm sorry, but in 'my' experience with a Cimbali Junior D/1, it can be a really important one.
                  Not having a manual reset safety thermostat could well result in terminal damage to your heating element.

                  If at any one time the Sirai gets stuck (happens) or the machine has a leak at the steam wand or the water tap due to a worn gasket (happens), the boiler will slowly lose water while under pressure with the Sirai happily clicking away till the boiler loses enough water (and pressure) that it stops clicking and applies heat constantly to recover the now un-recoverable pressure (due to the lack of water in the boiler).

                  At this point, the 'only thing that will save your heating element from being toast is a manual reset thermostat as an auto-reset thermostat will turn 'on' and 'off' according to the element's temperature, irrespectively of there being any water inside the boiler, with the end result being an element that was turned on and off inside an empty boiler ie: a cracked or burnt out heating element.

                  My own D/1's heating element (a rather dear Cimbali part) was saved by the digital timer I use to turn the machine on/off every morning at 05:00 and 08:30 respectively. My return home one monday morning was delayed and instead of getting in at 08:00 for my morning espresso, I arrived well past 10:00 to find the kitchen counter full of condensed steam and the D/1's boiler empty and dry.

                  The OEM auto-reset thermostat would have been a severe liability if not for the timer that saved the day and the heating element by switching off the mains to the machine.

                  Bear in mind that practically all important espresso machines have DPST manual reset thermostats.

                  Cheers,

                  CIV
                  Last edited by CIV; 28 August 2012, 12:08 AM. Reason: spelling and punctuation

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks CIV, I truly appreciate your exhaustive explanation, and that’s why I decide to follow your advice and bought one cut off device with reset button: 16 amps, 135º from Campini!
                    See picture.
                    Cheers
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello:

                      Originally posted by valimar View Post
                      Thanks CIV, I truly appreciate your exhaustive explanation ...
                      You're welcome.

                      Originally posted by valimar View Post
                      ... decide to follow your advice and bought one cut off device ...
                      That was 'exactly' what you were needing.

                      Now you'll need a couple of M3 (?) roundhead screws to put it in place, cleaning the spot where it goes with alcohol or thinner first.

                      Don't forget to use some (dense) thermal grease between the heating element manifold and the bottom of the thermostat to ensure good heat transfer and well insulated female spade terminals for the connection.

                      Now you're all set. =-)

                      Cheers,

                      CIV

                      Comment

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