Confirmed! The Slayer 1 group will be unveiled at MICE at the end of the month.
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A very interesting comment.Originally posted by Tony_Barista View Post..The 1 group Slayer is being developed as a tool for Roasters and blenders...
The current line is to make all things coffee, all about the equipment rather than the coffee itself. The quote takes that one step further in the same direction.
Unless all clients have the same equipment as their roaster / blender suppliers, and are prepared to go along wth the roaster's advice about how to set up their individual equipment to get the "best" out of their coffee offerings, what is the reason for a roaster / blender supplier to have that equipment?
Will the roaster blenders send out a daily bulletin to all their clients, advising them how to change the equipment parameters to continue to get the best out of that ever quickly changing variable known as "fresh roast coffee"?
Will the clients themselves use such equipment in the way the designers and manufacturers intended, which would be to forever experiment with the fresh beans to find the best fit for the beans at any particular time?
Do roaster blender suppliers and their cafe clients have the time and the type of staff who care enough to do this? (We know this as "work ethic").
And if this is the line being presented by cafes to their own clients in turn (those that buy that special elusive nirvana in a cup), are cafes that leave the equipment set as at initial original delivery, guilty of misleading the market?
Have the marketers now gone too far in their push of the idea that its all about the equipment now rather than the coffee? Because if this equipment is for roasters and blenders to get the very best out of their offerings, does that mean that the professional skill of a roaster and blender has been reduced to nothing more than throwing a bucket of single original greens into a roasting machine and waiting for it to tumble out the other end some time later.....because all the magic is now taken care of with the espresso machine and its operators?
So quick, to devalue and take from the profession of coffee roasting and like robin hood, redistribute any cudos for a nice cup of coffee, to having such equipment, as operated by baristas who have more skill than their suppliers.
Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?
For the rest of it. Another 1 group coffee machine, with price tag I am sure that will be commensurate with its larger stable mates. Those who are prepared to pay the price should be looking to get full value from their investment.Last edited by TOK; 8 May 2013, 01:49 PM.
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How does a machine like a slayer make it easier for roasters or diminish the craft? It provides a moving target rather then a fixed one. It's going to require more tasting not less as there are now more variables in the mix. It's going to take a roaster with with a very specific vision of how they want the coffee to taste to get the best out of it. For a very long time roasters had known that when roasting for espresso the beverage would be brewed at 9 bars at a temperature of around 92-93 deg c, The controls available to baristas were fairly easy to specify, ie we recommend a dose of x for a yeild of x in x seconds. It's harder now.Originally posted by TOK View PostA very interesting comment.
The current line is to make all things coffee, all about the equipment rather than the coffee itself. The quote takes that one step further in the same direction.
Unless all clients have the same equipment as their roaster / blender suppliers, and are prepared to go along wth the roaster's advice about how to set up their individual equipment to get the "best" out of their coffee offerings, what is the reason for a roaster / blender supplier to have that equipment?
Will the roaster blenders send out a daily bulletin to all their clients, advising them how to change the equipment parameters to continue to get the best out of that ever quickly changing variable known as "fresh roast coffee"?
Will the clients themselves use such equipment in the way the designers and manufacturers intended, which would be to forever experiment with the fresh beans to find the best fit for the beans at any particular time?
Do roaster blender suppliers and their cafe clients have the time and the type of staff who care enough to do this? (We know this as "work ethic").
And if this is the line being presented by cafes to their own clients in turn (those that buy that special elusive nirvana in a cup), are cafes that leave the equipment set as at initial original delivery, guilty of misleading the market?
Have the marketers now gone too far in their push of the idea that its all about the equipment now rather than the coffee? Because if this equipment is for roasters and blenders to get the very best out of their offerings, does that mean that the professional skill of a roaster and blender has been reduced to nothing more than throwing a bucket of single original greens into a roasting machine and waiting for it to tumble out the other end some time later.....because all the magic is now taken care of with the espresso machine and its operators?
So quick, to devalue and take from the profession of coffee roasting and like robin hood, redistribute any cudos for a nice cup of coffee, to having such equipment, as operated by baristas who have more skill than their suppliers.
Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?
For the rest of it. Another 1 group coffee machine, with price tag I am sure that will be commensurate with its larger stable mates. Those who are prepared to pay the price should be looking to get full value from their investment.
From a roasters perspective espresso roasting may be seen as the art of compromise (balance) your trying to bring out desirable traits while diminishing the presence of undesirable traits. If your trying to bring out origin character you'll be trying to trade acidity for sweetness while preserving origin character. If your beans are sub par you might be trying to hide bean defects without taking the roast too dark. If brewing in a certain way can mean the roaster doesn't have to compromise as much that's probably a good thing.
I imagine a single group slayer is probably more for companies that roast and brew their espresso in attached cafes. If coffee roasted specifically for Slayer and the customer is using a Linea, they likely wont be producing the very best espresso that the raw beans would have been capable of if the roaster had been testing and tasting on flat 9bar profiled machine. But if you roast for your own cafe's and they all have the equipment, and you have time to discuss brewing with the baristas it makes perfect sense to be tasting coffee on equipment that replicates whats in the shop.
The main problem with machines like Slayer is the lack or literature out there on what actually happens to coffee and extraction when subjected to very long pre-brew, pre-brew at 2 bar rather then 4 bar, a flat 9 bar profile or one that declines linearly, or one that is flat but declines at the end. The internet is full of contradictory information that attributes different effects to different parts of the profile and comes up with different results.
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It sounds like you've gone off the deep end.Originally posted by TOK View PostDoes this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?
Not sure why you posted that at all. But either way.
Simplest explanation:
Roasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.
The rest of post is more or less dribble. People like nice things. People like working on nice things. So people buy nice things.
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Yes- agreed. If the only way they can make their coffee taste any good is fiddle with Slayer, I'd argue that the mark has been missed by a fair margin and the result will be a product of interest to only to a small niche- Slayer owners who are brainwashed to think that the only way to make great coffee is to buy a SlayerOriginally posted by Autti View PostRoasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.
Sadly it is. I hear of this exact spin out of the USA.Originally posted by TOK View PostDoes this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?Last edited by TC; 8 May 2013, 04:59 PM.
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Originally posted by Autti View PostIt sounds like you've gone off the deep end.
Not sure why you posted that at all. But either way.
Simplest explanation:
Roasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.
The rest of post is more or less dribble. People like nice things. People like working on nice things. So people buy nice things.
Personal insults and driVEL ("dribble"???). Missed the point of the commentary which was in the main an open ended discussion on part of a previous post that says the machine is apparently targeted at roasters and blenders...not whether people like nice things or not.
Good post from muppet man, who took the discussion seriously.
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If you phrase a statement as a question, is that commentary?Originally posted by TOK View PostPersonal insults and driVEL ("dribble"???). Missed the point of the commentary which was in the main an open ended discussion on part of a previous post that says the machine is apparently targeted at roasters and blenders...not whether people like nice things or not.
Good post from muppet man, who took the discussion seriously.
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