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Synesso - any signs of a domestic/prosumer machine?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dickydan View Post
    I have no expectations, it was a simple question for the forum. Next time I'll ensure I caveat every aspect to a question I ask before I ask it otherwise it seems like it will result in some thinking that the world revolves around me. Precious-much...
    Yes, there are some Grumpy Old Men around but we're not all like that...

    Mal.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
      Another cordial first impression thread...

      Out of interest, is anyone able to explain where the fat's been trimmed in the GS/3 as opposed to a commercial single-group? Is it just a matter of smaller back-to-back capacity, or what?
      Welcome dicky,

      I think your question was more than valid....

      Could they do it if they wanted and at a reasonable price? No doubt. There is nothing in particular which distinguishes a Synesso from similar LM machines. Whether Synesso are interested in the domestic market is another issue completely.

      As far as the GS/3 is concerned, I think some fat may have been trimmed in terms of finish and definitely in the materials used for the chassis which requires care lest you bend the drip tray rails, but other than that, it's an awesome machine.

      Competition will come from the Vesuvius which on features and performance has lifted the bar substantially beyond GS/3 performance levels- but not without a huge learning curve. This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.

      There's plenty of space in the $5-12k bracket for some incredible new gear and a whole heap of companies are going to need to play catch up on Ambient&spresso. I think the domestic machine market is at the beginning of a huge evolution in the next few years....

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      • #18
        Hi dicky,

        Don't let the "to 'n fro" bother you too much.... it's got more to do with the "to 'n froers" than it has with your question!

        Below is some comparative specs, differences..... weight (as per Chris' comments above in post #17), brew boiler, power consumption ( boiler elements ).


        PERFORMANCE AT HOME - TECHNOLOGY & DESIGN
        "GS" for its saturated brew group (gruppo saturo), the GS/3 is ideal for those who wish to extend excellence to
        include a supreme cup of coffee – whether in small restaurants, boutique hotels or at home in the kitchen, a
        must for the perfectionist and espresso coffee enthusiasts.

        TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

        1 GROUP

        HEIGHT (CM/IN) 35,5/14
        WIDTH (CM/IN) 40/16
        DEPTH (CM/IN) 53/21
        WEIGHT (KG/LBS) 33/73
        VOLTAGE (VAC) 110V/220V
        STANDARD WATTS (W) 2100(220V)
        1600 (110V)
        COFFEE BOILER (L) 1,5
        STEAM BOILER (L) 3,5

        LINEA CLASSIC - HEAVY DUTY WORKHORSE
        A work of art that is linear in design and dressed in polished stainless steel, the Linea Classic is perfectly
        executed to blend into any setting, a union of simplicity and elegance, a La Marzocco classic, an industry icon.

        TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

        1 GROUP


        HEIGHT (CM/IN) 45,5/18
        WIDTH (CM/IN) 49/20
        DEPTH (CM/IN) 56/22
        WEIGHT (KG/LBS) 41/90
        VOLTAGE (VAC) 200 SINGLE/3 PHASE
        220 SINGLE/3 PHASE
        200 SINGLE/3 PHASE
        220 SINGLE/3 PHASE
        380 3 PHASE
        STANDARD WATTS (W) 2500

        COFFEE BOILER (L) 1,8
        STEAM BOILER (L) 3,5

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
          As far as the GS/3 is concerned, I think some fat may have been trimmed in terms of finish and definitely in the materials used for the chassis which requires care lest you bend the drip tray rails, but other than that, it's an awesome machine. Competition will come from the Vesuvius which on features and performance has lifted the bar substantially beyond GS/3 performance levels- but not without a huge learning curve. This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.

          There's plenty of space in the $5-12k bracket for some incredible new gear and a whole heap of companies are going to need to play catch up on Ambient&spresso. I think the domestic machine market is at the beginning of a huge evolution in the next few years....
          The only thing I don't agree with here is the huge learning curve. I personally don't think the Vesuvius is that difficult to use and you can copy other peoples profiles until you feel confident to make your own. There is a learning curve, sure, but it's fun and it's not really huge.

          Like you, I do believe though that in addition to pressure profiling, the other convenience/functional features will make the competition sit up and take notice. As you say it will take a few years, but it will eventually happen. At the moment I am not sure the penny has fully dropped with them on some of the stuff; like the proper prosumer relevant ECO mode and some of the tricks you can use ECO mode for, the fact that the HX circuit is always mechanically separated from the brew boiler, unless a shot is being pulled, even when HX is on, the 2 segment individual daily on off timers. Lastly, the easy of working on the machine for maintenance etc..

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
            This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.
            The LM Strada EP came out 2 years ago but I assume you are only referring to the domestic market?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by davec View Post
              the fact that the HX circuit is always mechanically separated from the brew boiler, unless a shot is being pulled, even when HX is on, the 2 segment individual daily on off timers.
              Hi Dave,

              Could you please explain a little more regarding the HX circuit, what it is, what it does, etc… This machine sounds interesting.

              Cheers

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by davec View Post
                The only thing I don't agree with here is the huge learning curve. I personally don't think the Vesuvius is that difficult to use and you can copy other peoples profiles until you feel confident to make your own. There is a learning curve, sure, but it's fun and it's not really huge.
                I think it's a brilliant machine. To get the best out of it, you need to be very consistent with dose. This is something that new players can find challenging. If you say run a "lever" style profile with a window of time at 11 bar, you have to be right for that pressure. If you're not, you get little/nothing.

                Some beginners will simply let a shot run and run until a result (albeit bad) is in the cup. It's less likely that you would get a result in this scenario with the vesuvius.

                My opinion? For shots it is at least on a level footing with the Strada EP- i.e incredible. On functionality, it blows every espresso machine ever produced comprehensively out of the water. The fact that it can be purchased with a lower spend than a LM GS/3 makes for an absolute bargain.

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                • #23
                  Talk_Coffee,

                  Do they have a 1 group system?

                  There's a lot of espresso lovers and geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house but cant necessarily supply enough countertop estate for the machine........... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

                  If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TheLudicrousBean View Post

                    Do they have a 1 group system?

                    There's a lot of espresso geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house .... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

                    If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3
                    They? Being men in white coats I presume?

                    "espresso geeks like us...in our house".... you mean there's more than one of you, Ray? Heeeelp!!

                    Geeks (the good guys) would know that...

                    1) The GS3 is a real machine, not a rumour. ( I've actually seen one! ) ;-)

                    2) Synesso have had a 1 group out for a while now......( I've seen one of those too )

                    The above might not be any better than a Pavoni tho', Ray, so hang on to it :-D ...... gee, rumours about rumours and all!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TheLudicrousBean View Post
                      There's a lot of espresso lovers and geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house but cant necessarily supply enough countertop estate for the machine........... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

                      If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3
                      If you spent a small fraction of the time researching as you do trolling you would know that both machines already exist and have for some time.


                      Java "Hears the clue phone ringing" phile
                      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JKM View Post
                        Hi Dave,

                        Could you please explain a little more regarding the HX circuit, what it is, what it does, etc… This machine sounds interesting.

                        Cheers
                        On the Vesuvius brew water can be preheated by an HX in the steam boiler when the steam boiler is on, but unlike any other machine, you can also opt to not preheat the brew water when the steam boiler is on e.g. if you run low brew temps on a hot day and very high steam boiler temps. At all times except when pulling a shot with preheat on, the brew and steam boiler HX preheat plumbing are mechanically separated, so no thermal transfer can exist between brew and steam boiler...again unlike any other machine.

                        There is also a comprehensive ECO mode (that's actually useful) going well beyond anything on the market at the moment and allows some quite useful tricks....all detailed in the recently updated version 9 of the user guide on the owners forum. I also assume Chris has a copy or link on his site (or should have)...hint.

                        At the money for what it does, it really is a bargain....unless of course you really need/want a name like LM, Speedster, Slayer and nothing else will do...which is fine, that is the way the world works. If it didn't, we would all drive the same car.

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