What sets the gs3 apart form Izzo Duetto 3 and the Rocket R58?

[azeworai]

Looking online, there seems to be a few reviews saying the duetto and the rocket would get a similar results as the gs3.

I'd like to get some feedback from gs3 owners. What do you think sets the gs3 apart when comparing to other 'prosumer' machines like the duetto 3 and the r58?
Is it worth the price difference and what other machines would give a similar result as the gs3?

I'm interested in the gs3 from the point of view that I see la marzocco being used in the good cafes that I know of.

So if I want an analog to the cafe machines, the gs3 is the closest thing.

[E-Gene]

My personal opinion is that while the Duetto and the R58 are prosumer machines, the GS3 is a machine suited for a commercial environment. That I feel is what sets it apart from the "prettier" prosumer machines.

[brendogs]

After upgrading from a Duetto to a GS3 my opinion is that in the cup the results are on par. I find that the GS3 is easier to steam milk, although when I put some thought into it I don't think that spending some small dollars on replacement tips for your Duetto wouldn't be a bad investment considering you would be saving a few thousand at the cash register.

I fell in love with a GS3 from a long time ago, therefore my upgraditis was never complete until I hit that pinnacle. Although now with hindsight, if I was stranded on a desert island with a Duetto, power source, filtered water and fresh coffee. I think I will survive for years

[TC]

My personal opinion is that while the Duetto and the R58 are prosumer machines, the GS3 is a machine suited for a commercial environment. That I feel is what sets it apart from the "prettier" prosumer machines.

Hi E-Gene.

I think the main difference is the saturated brew head. It comes to temperature more rapidly than most e-61 (though the Duetto comes up very quickly as well). As an owner of one, I wouldn't consider it commercial in that the chassis is far more fragile than that of commercial machines. You really don't want to be moving one around too much at all and we have experienced 2 with bad bends in the front legs. It's one aspect of the design I would change if it were my design- so the GS/3 is a 1 group (saturated) domestic machine. To go to commercial- 1 group Linea.

Great coffee out of it? Absolutely. From a Duetto or R58? Yes as well. You pay a premium with all things LM because they are LM. In terms of functionality the Ambient Vesuvius blows the GS/3 out of the water in that you'd need a 1 gp Strada EP to compete with it- but I'll be keeping my GS/3 for the time being as I love the low-rise form factor for my domestic environment and I have a Vesuvius to play with at the "office".

Cheers

Chris

[TOK]

Looking online, there seems to be a few reviews saying the duetto and the rocket would get a similar results as the gs3.

I'd like to get some feedback from gs3 owners. What do you think sets the gs3 apart when comparing to other 'prosumer' machines like the duetto 3 and the r58?
Is it worth the price difference and what other machines would give a similar result as the gs3?

I'm interested in the gs3 from the point of view that I see la marzocco being used in the good cafes that I know of.

So if I want an analog to the cafe machines, the gs3 is the closest thing.

The GS3 IS a prosumer machine just like the nothers are.

If you do a blind cupping from all three (and others) I would wager that you wont be able to tell the difference between them (or if you can....what will it prove when the coffees will all be great regardless).

What the GS3 offers is super mod styling. If you think the coffee is significantly different, it is your eyes telling your mind what to think. And on the basis of all that, then the price difference isnt worth it, except if your mind tells you it is.

Different brand model machines will suit different owners personal wants and needs and

You see LM's in cafes at close to three times the price of other brand machines, because there is a great deal of "marketeering" going on in coffee and cafe business that home owners dont know much about. It has all to do with money and profit, and not much to do with real quality in the cup.

Buy what you like, with your eyes open.

Hope that helps.

[dans1982]

I've had my GS3 for about 6 months now and I wouldn't swap it for anything. The GS3 makes amazing coffee, super fast heat up and recovery time, better stability than the Duetto and the R58, simple to use and program, better steam power ( not by much, but better) stainless steel group head and portafilters, saturated brew head, easy access for maintenance and just plain sexy! I used it recently for a family function with 60 people and it's was faultless! It's speed and recovery time blew me away! I'm a big fan and it's definitely cured my upgraditis. But as all things go, without the right grinder and beans it's useless. Good luck with the decision dude, I was stuck it the same dilemma at the time but if you have the cash I would go the GS3. I always wanted one and my decision came down to.....would I regret not buying the GS3?

[chokkidog]

Out of interest dans.... what did you have before the GS3?

[dans1982]

A Giotto premium plus and just before that, an expobar office leva with a rotary pump, among others. But I've tested the R58 and the Duetto when going through the decision process. Why do you ask?

[chokkidog]

Just to flesh out the background to your comments.

When one of us says that this machine or that grinder is better than x or y it's always good

to know where we are coming from when making the claim. All good....just curious. :-D

[dans1982]

All good chokkidog, though I didn't actually say it was better, I said aspects of it were better. It's called an opinion. Someone asked for advice and I gave an opinion base on my experience and knowledge.

[azeworai]

Faster heat up, how much faster is the gs3 than the R58/Duetto?
On the stability of the R58/Duetto, how many shots + milk steaming can it go for before you'd say it needs to rest?

I read that the E61 group head is tempurature stable if you let it warm up 30 minutes. Would this side step the stability issue?

Is warm up not required on the gs3's saturated brew head?

[TC]

I have a GS/3 and use a Duetto every day as well.

My Scace verified observations are:

• startup to ready to roll- same same. It's about 15min with both and the reason is that restrictors are not employed in the Izzo e-61 setup. Izzo comes up faster than the R58 which requires the usual 30 min.
• temp stability in domestic situations is also terrific in both with a slight edge to LM in large back to back operations- think 20+ back to back.
• milk texture. LM holds the edge on earlier Duetto variants. The heavy end plate version boiler (late 2013 onwards)- same same- though LM has more steam volume if you are enamoured with 1L jugs- bigger boilers
• any other perceptions- placebo effect.
• build quality and finish? Sorry, but the gong goes to the current Duetto and by a significant margin.

You buy a LM because you like them and are prepared to pay the substantial premium for the brand. Coffee from both machines is fantastic and I am in little doubt that the LM branding on the side panels of the GS/3 probably represents a good $2k.

In terms of what can be done with espresso, both are blown into the weeds by the Vesuvius- but you'd better have your A game handy.

[azeworai]

I checked out this video on the Vesuvius

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=orkfx76fZ_8

I can see a touch screen and variable brew pressure profiles.

Is this the one you're talking about having a better cup than the gs3 and the duetto?

[coffee_machinist]

I agree with all observations so far above. I'd like to point out that alot of what you pay for in a GS/3 is in the name and it's not just superficial, yes, it's a La Marzocco, but it's also a 'Gruppo Satura'.

This is an engineering approach to temperature stability that, regardless what it means in the context of low volume domestic use, is EXPENSIVE to manufacture and this is partly where your money goes. There is alot of precision manufacturing in stainless steel in a GS/3 brew boiler and that stuff costs.

What it comes down to in the real world is response time. This has already been noted in terms of heat-up time, but it's also the time it takes for changes in boiler temp. to equate to changes in extraction temp. This is very relevant if you're the type that gets excited about trying different brew temps with your espresso, once you have eliminated all other variables.

The GS/3 has a real advantage here as it's a direct relationship, there is alot less plumbing between the temp. probe and the showerscreen than there is in any E61 dual boiler configuration, where the large mass of the group has alot of inertia to changes in boiler temp. and will take a proportionally longer time to tweak up or down.

Does it matter? Probably not, if you just want to bang out good shots. In a cupping lab, you'd be mad to have anything other than a saturated group.

[TC]

I checked out this video on the Vesuvius

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=orkfx76fZ_8

I can see a touch screen and variable brew pressure profiles.

Is this the one you're talking about having a better cup than the gs3 and the duetto?

I suspect the concept of "better" will still be debated in 5 years. What the vesuvius offers over a vanilla GS/3 is the ability to play with extraction pressure and it does influence what's in the cup.