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What sets the gs3 apart form Izzo Duetto 3 and the Rocket R58?

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  • #16
    The GS3 looks much better then the others in my opinion.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by coffee_machinist View Post
      I 'Gruppo Satura'.

      Does it matter? Probably not, if you just want to bang out good shots. In a cupping lab, you'd be mad to have anything other than a saturated group.
      Thank you for your insights CM, can you elaborate more on why the saturated group is so important for a cupping lab? Is it for temperature->taste testing?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by azeworai View Post
        Thank you for your insights CM, can you elaborate more on why the saturated group is so important for a cupping lab? Is it for temperature->taste testing?
        I think Rick has already covered that off for your azeworai.

        Originally posted by coffee_machinist View Post
        The GS/3 has a real advantage here as it's a direct relationship, there is alot less plumbing between the temp. probe and the shower screen than there is in any E61 dual boiler configuration, where the large mass of the group has alot of inertia to changes in boiler temp. and will take a proportionally longer time to tweak up or down.

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        • #19
          Genuine question... What is the role of a espresso machine in a cupping room ?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by blend52 View Post
            Genuine question... What is the role of a espresso machine in a cupping room ?
            In our case, we roast samples for cupping and often for filter and espresso as well. Cupping is just that and is essential (for me anyway). It helps determine whether a candidate for purchase passes muster and is a check on our roasts as well.

            The espresso machine is used to check that espresso roast candidates work and for tweaking roast profiles. When most of our clients have HX machines which will deliver circa 94 deg. C shots, there is little value (for us) in an espresso roast which works well at 90 deg. or 98 deg.

            Ultimately, I want to be sure that we hit the nail on the head for the intended use.

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            • #21
              So Chris your "personal" machine at home is a GS3, but you use the Duetto at work every day - is that right?
              Being the Aus importer for the Duetto, I'm curious why you chose the GS3 as your personal machine given what you've said above about the Duetto's performance against the GS3 (in essence too similar to call outside 20+ shots in a row and needing to adjust temp finer than 1 deg C) and for testing for your customers who as you said have mainly HX set at circa 94 deg, wouldn't the Duetto be better for testing beans as it's closer to an E61 HX than a GS3, and gives you temp control?

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              • #22
                Chris didn't say he used his GS3 for evaluating retail roasts, but I'm sure he has in the past. That GS3 of yours Chris, must be getting on for 7 or 8 years old? When did the Alex Duetto hit the market?

                I said GS/3's belong in a cupping lab. Maybe I should rephrase 'cupping lab' for those wishing to jump to conclusions, to 'commercial roastery training room/cupping room', where it is imperative to verify that roasts, predominantly blends, going out the door are performing as intended at a range of brew temps.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bames View Post
                  So Chris your "personal" machine at home is a GS3, but you use the Duetto at work
                  Spanish inquisition or what?

                  Easy. I had the GS/3 MP long before we started importing the Duetto. It was an upgrade from a ECM Veneziano S1 and one of the first to hit the country.

                  As previously stated, I liked the form factor (ours is out on an island bench) and still do for that matter. I liked the software as well- inbuilt timer for auto on in the morning. I was prepared to pay the ransom for it and still love the machine.

                  We espresso test on a variety of machines from our bench- some HX, some dual boiler, some lever but typically at around 94 deg. We sometimes have a GS/3 on the demo bench at work too- but not at the moment. It all comes down to what I feel like using on the day.

                  At home, I drink coffee for pleasure. At work, it's sometimes work. At any rate, we are a long way from the OP's question and many of the recent posts are probably more appropriate for another thread.

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                  • #24
                    Geez, it's becoming increasingly harder to give advice or have an opinion on this site isn't it! If your on this site to scrutinise and probe people for giving their advice without adding anything useful to the thread to help the prospective buyer make a decision about a coffee machine, maybe you should start a site called " coffee police " with the slogan " if you give advice it may be used against you in a court of law"

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                    • #25
                      Seriously people - chill. Reading my question again, I can see how it could have come across as an aggressive probe - but maybe read it again with a kind inquisitive tone in mind, and it will sound much closer to what the intent was.

                      The difficulty of forums is that you never get body language, tone etc etc. It was just a simple question, as Chris said that the Duetto and GS3 are fairly similar in terms of pure core functionality, temp stability etc, with the GS3 edging in a couple of departments and the Duetto edging in one as well.

                      That was great info but I was just keen to know what it was about the GS3 that made Chris say "I'll have this instead of that" for his home machine (that's what i meant by "personal", but put it in "" because I'm sure he's used it to help his work too). Seems its a combo of having the GS3 before the Duetto came to market, and the fact that he likes some of it's usability stuff and it's look and feel as well. That's fine - that's great - they're similar-sh reasons I chose a Duetto over say a BDB or something else - and that's also fine!

                      No judgement, no inquisition, no scrutiny - just genuinely, without agendas, curious.

                      And relating this back to the OP's question, it seems the answer has been informed by the questions and comments and advice given.
                      Core functionality - coin toss.
                      Pushing it outside the home environment to party/light commercial - GS3 has an edge.
                      For a coffee lab/roastery - saturated group helps, eg GS3 has an edge
                      After that, it's form, brand, exclusivity, added extras etc. And if you choose a machine for those reasons, that's great!

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                      • #26
                        Azeworai.....In your OP you asked about " what other machines" (than GS3, Alex Duetto and Giotto) Not knowing what your budget is but

                        applying your criteria of " cafe quality " machine for home use there is a group of machines not yet mentioned.

                        These are machines such as 1 grp Synesso, Slayer, LM Linea and KVDW Speedster, (originally built around the LM GS3 innards).

                        Rick might be able to say whether Kees is still using the LM saturated group on the Speedster or something different.

                        The Speedster, et al, come at a mind bending premium but that's what you pay for the design element and the brand + exclusivity.

                        There are not many Synessos or Slayers (even less ) around and finding someone who has used and not just tested or played with

                        these machines might be a little difficult.

                        Your OP has a particular pointedness about it, i.e. the LM direction and my comments above are purely to fill out more of the picture

                        as to what is available to you at the 'high ($) end'.

                        I don't for a minute intend to take away anything from all those cafes producing stunning

                        coffee on single boiler HX type machines with e61 groups ............ and there are plenty.

                        Nor am I suggesting the premium $ machines are any better, for the home, than the machines already mentioned.


                        p.s. the Vesuvius has been mentioned but what about the Alex Leva?? ;-)

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                        • #27
                          And that readers, is pretty much it in a nutshell.

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                          • #28


                            It's this baby that gets my pulse racing.

                            Disclaimer: Never owned, used, had a coffee from one, been a part of the company or got paid for this post.

                            It's just soooo shiny!!

                            (Chokkigdog posted about the speedster whilst I was working out how to put an image in my post )

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                            • #29
                              Me too... although my preference is for the Veloce body...

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                              • #30
                                Oh man, speedster!

                                I got to spend a day with Kees at his factory a few months ago, and was absolutely awestruck by his talents, operation and humility. He's a great engineer, designer, geek and a super nice bloke! Okay, gushing over.

                                The speedster definitely shares LM design principles, but Kees has taken it much, much further and refined every aspect according to his own ideals. The original 6 speedster prototypes used the GS/3 paddle boiler/group, but in the production machines he has completely redesigned the brew boiler and brew water circuit, which is shared with the Spirit. He has quite different ideas about preinfusion, including placement of the restrictor way back in the heat exchanger to make the whole brew volume act as a dampener, plus the spring preinfusion cylinder for an extremely smooth pressure ramp-up.

                                Basically, he has looked at every aspect and made improvements wherever he could, regarding design principles, materials choice and ergonomics. He builds machines his way, and doesn't care much about the mass market. You won't find any volumetric controls, or programmable on/off cycles. But you will find a functional piece of art. I for one love his aesthetic too, agreed about the veloce bodywork.

                                If you are seriously considering a Speedster, I can help with supply/installation/service. There is a lead time of a few months as each machine is built to order.

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