Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

    Every now and then after my Futurmat turns on (it is on a 15 amp timer) and it has reached operating temperature (about 30 minutes) I find that it will not immmediately froth milk. This is the case from both steaming arms. The pressure gauge shows the usual optimal level but I only get a few seconds of half-hearted steam. Then nothing....

    The pressure in the boiler drops right down and the heating element cuts in. The heater stays on for a few minutes and the pressure gauge shows that boiler pressure is building up again. When the heater turns off, there is plenty of steam.....but it wasnt available there a few minutes before. This head of steam will be abundant anytime I use it while the machine is still turned on.....but it may or not be there next time it turns on....



    Has anyone else had this problem?

    Any ideas what I can do to get around this?

  • #2
    Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

    Paolo,

    The boiler is full of air!

    As the boiler cools down, the vacuum break valve opens (the steam in the boiler cools) and that sucks in air.

    When the timer turns on - the boiler heats up, the air expands, the vacuum break closes and the air in the boiler gets pressurised - but as soon as you open a wand, the pressure drops to zero.... the boiler eventually fills with steam....

    You could check your vacuum break valve - but at the professional machine course- we were told to open a steam wand when shutting down and leave it open until lots of steam is coming out at heat up ... but this is a little hard on a timer.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

      Sounds like you had air in your boiler instead of steam. You should open your steam wand when shutting down and leave it open until heaps of steam is coming out at start-up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

        Man your quick java ;D

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

          Is there another way guys?
          Like fixing/changing the valve.

          Obviously it wasnt previously a problem.
          Something has changed and needs to be corrected.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

            Thundergod,

            If the vacuum break is operating correctly it will open just before the pressure in the boiler drops to zero (only a fraction of a PSI)..... and at this point the boiler is full of steam.... it then condenses and is replaced by air sucked in via the valve...(as it is designed to do).... so the boiler is full of air at atmospheric pressure - no collapsed boiler.

            You then turn on the heaters, initially the air in the boiler heats up and expands - but not much pressure is generated and the vacuum break stays open - some air escapes.... eventually some steam is produced, the pressure starts to increase more rapidly and the vacuum break closes (again at one PSI or less..... at this point the boiler is still mostly air..... which wont froth milk and the pressure dissipates almost as soon as the steam wand is open.... eventually all the air is flushed out and the boiler operates normally.....

            So you could either leave the wand open during heat up (most cafes do this when they turn the machine on 1 hour before opening) or you could open the wand and bleed off all the air / steam until a steady stream of pure steam is exiting...

            Cant see any other solution (other than an extra valve which stays open for X minutes after switch on to bleed the air).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

              Then why was it working to Paolos satisfaction before?

              Any idea whats changed?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                Originally posted by Thundergod link=1177460897/0#6 date=1177466586
                Then why was it working to Paolos satisfaction before?

                Any idea whats changed?
                The vacuum break is typically a small disc with an O ring on the top, the disc slides along a shaft inside a cylinder. The disc is raised by the pressure in the boiler until it seals the opening at the top of the cylinder....

                On older units the "sliding" of the disc becomes more difficult (due to residue on the shaft) and so it takes more pressure for it to seal.. the O ring loses some of its sealing ability so leaks until it is sufficiently hot to seal properly - both these were noticed on my machine prior to overhaul... so steam escaped from the valve for some time. No air in the boiler!!!!

                Post overhaul, the disc pops straight up as soon as the slightest pressure is indicated on the gauge and the new O ring seals instantly - resulting in lots of air in the boiler.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                  Thanks, JavaB!

                  Any idea where I could look for this "Vacuum break"?

                  I would like to beat this "quirk".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                    JavaB...

                    Is that what might be called a "pressure relief valve"?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                      Originally posted by Paolo link=1177460897/0#9 date=1177468916
                      JavaB...

                      Is that what might be called a "pressure relief valve"?
                      Nope, the pressure relief valve opens when the boiler is over pressure.....

                      What you are looking for is often at the top of the water level tube, or sometimes on the boiler.... it generally looks like a tube which is open at the top and you can look into it and see the disc which moves up and down....

                      I dont know if you can "fix" it.... as judging by the professional machine course I attended.... you need to open the steam valve on all boiler machines to let the air out..... (mine didnt have a problem when the valve leaked - i.e. it was faulty - but once fixed I have the same problem)....

                      But I leave mine on 24/7 - so not an issue!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                        On the top of my sightglass my machine has a brass sleeve that contains a stainless steel ball...which acts as a valve.

                        This sounds like what you talked about, JavaB.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                          Originally posted by Paolo link=1177460897/0#11 date=1177470320
                          On the top of my sightglass my machine has a brass sleeve that contains a stainless steel ball...which acts as a valve.

                          This sounds like what you talked about, JavaB.
                          Yep, sounds similar.... just using a ball rather than the disc.... probably a spring underneath which pushes it up to seal.... and when the machine is cooling down the vacuum inside the boiler sucks the ball down and lets the air in....

                          If you stop the air getting in, atmospheric pressure on the outside of the boiler will crush it - so be careful what you do!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                            Well there you go.....

                            And I thought that my Futurmat had a problem!

                            It sounds like what is happening is what is meant to occur.

                            Thanks for the piece of mind JavaB.

                            The professional machine course sounds interesting. Do you have a number that I could contact?
                            Maybe one could be arranged on the East side...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help! No steam!! For a few minutes, anyway...

                              Paulo,

                              I did the course at the Barista Academy over here in WA..... You might find one of the site sponsor can offer something similar over East....

                              Its well worth doing if you can get onto one! Commercial machine use is quite a bit different to the domestics.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X