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In population, Europe out scales the USA many fold...
The population of the US is approximately 320 million and that of the EU is 499 million... thus presenting a ration of 1.56 : 1 in favour of Europe. Even if you stretch the definition of Europe to its outer limits, including outliers such as Azerbaijan, Armenia and Turkey as well as ALL of Russia (including it's Asian half), then the population grows to 742 million, yielding a ratio of 2.31 : 1 in favour of Greater Europe... hardly what I would define as "many fold".
The brew boiler is very interesting. I think the idea is great but I'd love to see it pumping out shot after shot, but let's be honest it's designed as a 'domestic' machine so I guess shot after shot after shot within seconds of each other shouldn't be a realistic expectation of a 'domestic' machine. Although the price is far beyond that of any reasonable 'domestic'. As long as it can hold a set temperature for sustained periods of time will be the only goal for this machine.
In all seriousness the suspected pricing is ridiculous for whats on offer.
Quote post # 13..." ......LM's reputation in Europe is just as respected as any other country, it's just that they have more competitors in the commercial side than they possibly have in the US...."
Really?...... I dont know about the rest of europe, but in Italy, LM is virtually unknown. The branding phenomenon here, that is LM, is a US driven collaboration, AFAIK.
As with the statement regarding population, why let facts get in the way of one's post of the day? ;-)
I dont know about the rest of europe, but in Italy, LM is virtually unknown. The branding phenomenon here, that is LM, is a US driven collaboration, AFAIK.
La Marzocco only makes about 6000 machines a year, but judging by the number sold here and in the US, you would think they made vastly more. The USA and Australia are by far Marzocco's biggest markets, Australian consumption of Marzocco machines is I think not far behind the US despite our smaller population, and I think Melbourne just beats Sydney in terms of new Marzocco installations. We've got to the point where we are probably installing 2-3 new Marzoccos in an average week, sometimes 7 or 8.
Plus, what price are second hand Lineas here? It doesn't cost that much to get a sparky to run a 20a wire from your board and it'll be plumbed in.
Unless you can find a 1 group Linea you'll need 25 amp, not 20 amp for even just a 2 group Linea. General rule of thumb for commercial machines is 20 amp for a 2 group HX machine and 25 for a 3 group HX machine, when you go to a multiboiler machine like a Linea it will be 25 or 32 amp instead.
The Linea is huge in the USA, remember every Starbucks had one
.....and a lot of those ex-Starbucks machines made it over here afterwards - one local roaster shipped out a whole containerload of secondhand machines, modded them as necessary and put them out in cafes. Most were eventually retired over the last few years, but I think there are still a few out there to this day. If you see a well-worn 4 group Linea with the old shot timer style touchpads, chances are it is an ex-Starbucks machine.
Unless you can find a 1 group Linea you'll need 25 amp, not 20 amp for even just a 2 group Linea. General rule of thumb for commercial machines is 20 amp for a 2 group HX machine and 25 for a 3 group HX machine, when you go to a multiboiler machine like a Linea it will be 25 or 32 amp instead.
Wow that's interesting, that's a lot of power, getting into Tesla territory.
Hold on; I'm coming across a bunch of comments on HB that the brew boiler isn't actually PID-controlled, but that it's HX-fed from the steam boiler into a thermoblock, which provides dumb heat based on the level of the temp-selector knob (which is just a potentiometer)?
I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad way to go, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Scace results...
Nevermind, incorrect, as per kwantfm below.
Last edited by Dragunov21; 28 March 2015, 01:44 AM.
I read this on another website, I'm not sure if it is true or not?
"The brew boiler design is something new for La Marzocco too; it's a small volume box that sits right on top of the machine's grouphead. PID controlled of course. La Marzocco told me that it was incredibly efficient and one of the reasons the machine had such a quick heat up time. The water volume is quite small inside, but since the water being fed into it comes through the steam boiler heat exchanger, this is not an issue at all."
I have to say the build quality on the internals looks impressive! Here's a couple of pics floating around
La Marzocco only makes about 6000 machines a year, but judging by the number sold here and in the US, you would think they made vastly more. The USA and Australia are by far Marzocco's biggest markets, Australian consumption of Marzocco machines is I think not far behind the US despite our smaller population, and I think Melbourne just beats Sydney in terms of new Marzocco installations. We've got to the point where we are probably installing 2-3 new Marzoccos in an average week, sometimes 7 or 8.
so , maybe max 15 -20 m/c's per week installed in Au....... 1000 per year ?
..And then if we are not far behind the USA in term a of volume,... Another 2000 PA over there ?
So where do the other 3000 m/c's go to ?
i suspect a fair proportion are in Europe
"Dan got a clarification from Scott Guglielmino at LM USA that the Linea Mini uses a Gicar PID, with the knob (potentiometer) being an input into the temperature setting. That potentiometer is calibrated at the factory, and will be marked with the position for 200°F. There will be no possible end-user calibration, it seems.
So the Linea Mini definitely has a PID, it just doesn't have a display. This means that you get all the consistency of a PID, but no (potentially inaccurate) number to fixate on."
so , maybe max 15 -20 m/c's per week installed in Au....... 1000 per year ?
..And then if we are not far behind the USA in term a of volume,... Another 2000 PA over there ?
So where do the other 3000 m/c's go to ?
i suspect a fair proportion are in Europe
We're just one of 6 authorised Marzocco distributors in Australia, we're the newest and probably not one of the biggest, so I'd suspect the total number of new Marzoccos installed per week in Australia would be well over 1000 units.
There are a lot of Marzocco distributors throughout Asia too. There are even African distributors, including one in Ethiopia. I suspect once you subtract US and Australian sales numbers plus a quantity for Asian sales and the rest of the world, the proportion of Marzoccos sold in Europe is probably below a third of total production or even less.
It's also worthwhile remembering that La Marzocco are an American-based company, not an Italian one (albeit most of their machines are still made there), so the US is their home market.
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