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Economiser valve on Cimbali M30 Bistro

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  • Economiser valve on Cimbali M30 Bistro

    Hello!

    Inspired by the many impressive restorations documented here, I've been undergoing my own, having recently acquired a La Cimbali M30 Bistro 2 group machine.
    With many thanks to those that have gone before me and shared so much information, I've been able to get almost everything apart, and am in the process of removing a fairly decent amount of scale and grime. As this model is a vibe pump model, it has the plastic water volume measures, with the OPV bleeding back into the chamber - it took me a while to figure out how it worked, and get over my initial impression that it was an ugly tangle, but I've got to admit I've come around to it as a canny design solution.

    The reason I'm posting here is to pose a question to the many Cimbali experts about the water inlet / economiser on my boiler. I've been able to get everything else off, but this part is still stuck, and I don't want to force it! In all the schematics, diagrams and photos I've seen so far, there is a valve with two bolts either side of the inlet, attaching this valve so that it has the correct orientation. Mine, however, is does not have those bolts, rather, seems to be threaded itself into the boiler - with attachments for water flow at 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock. I'll try to attach the photos in a subsequent post. My question, however, is if anybody has come across an inlet like this before - and any tips or cautions as to how to remove and clean it? (And then, to get it back on so that it lines up with the other piping?)

    In the meantime, I'll try this for photos: photo 1 and photo 2

    For any help I am much obliged,
    Ash

  • #2
    Ok, lets have a go at images again:






    First one with the Cap removed and the adjustment screw visible, the second one with the Cap on (sorry about the flash!)

    Ash

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    • #3
      Ash,
      I've worked on similar in the past,I'd be confident enough to tackle the inlet valve.Looks like brass threaded into stainless steel boiler,remove the smaller brass inlets,giving you enough room to fit a decent sized (correct sized) open ender/ (big) spanner or socket (if available).
      Anti clockwise rotation,with boiler firmly secured and you should loosen safely,the trick is to ensure any wrench/spanner is correct fitting size.......no slipping allowed!
      See how you go,any problems,just post the whole machine to me and I'll sort it out......however,then you may not get it back in a hurry!
      Cheers,
      Mick.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Mick! I've been letting it soak in citric acid for a while - but there seems to be some really hard mineral/scale holding it on. It took a while to get the element out as well...
        I've taken the smaller inlets off, and I will persist!
        In your experience, is there a washer, gasket or seal in there? I'm kind of amazed that the thread would match up perfectly so that the inlet and hot water out line up as they do.
        I'm wondering if perhaps part of the problem could be the liberal use of thread sealer to get it in the right place. I'm also unable to move the adjustment screw yet either. Here's the latest:



        Still having fun, at this stage!
        cheers,
        Ash

        Comment


        • #5
          Ash,
          Great image of the boiler sitting in the citric acid,great photo!
          You could have another go,after the bath,clockwise then counter clockwise..back and forth to break the thread compound grip,then counter clock wise to fully remove your inlet.
          Every attempt must ensure a thorough grip with wrench/etc to prevent slippage on your soft brass alloy.
          Depending how long you have had it in the bath...should make it easier to break the seal...eventually.
          The copper piping is very adjustable to accommodate re fitment ,and always use some bee's wax to aid reconnection of pipework (ferrous or non) ,especially fine threading.
          Cheers,
          Mick
          Last edited by mulquemi; 13 May 2015, 03:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I guess you might be able to make out some of the slight marks I've already made on the brass... Great suggestion with the bee's wax! I actually have a beehive, and have been running out of ideas of what to do with the wax - there are only so many candles and furniture polish you can make!
            cheers,
            Ash

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            • #7
              It is free! Finally got it out - boy was it in tight... It took a lot of convincing.

              However, it was going perhaps a little too well, as there have been a couple of setbacks. Hopefully nothing patience (and perhaps some advice) won't solve. Good news - all my new seals and bits from coffee parts arrived, which was great. Bad news - the gaskets for the HX and element were out of stock, so I'll just have to wait!

              But, in the meantime, I've been putting back together as much as I can, and have found a couple of new obstacles. First, the new pressurestat that I'm putting in has a much shorter thread than the old one, but that should be a simple fix of bending the copper pipe a little to reach - only needs about 1.5 - 2 cm to get there.

              Second, I was re-attaching the pressure gauge, and slowly making sure the connection was snug, when I hear a little crack. The fitting on the end of the pipe cracked. BUMMER. I had a closer look, and tried to see what the damage was and even more of the fitting crumbled under my fingers. They really do get quite fragile!

              Anyway, I've got the pics below to give an idea - I think I'm game to try and solder on a new fitting - I just don't know what type or where to get one. It is 6mm external diameter copper pipe, and the fitting has a smaller hole in the end, and a rim for a gasket where it joins the gauge. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm wondering if that might be replaced with the 'sleeve' - coffeeparts number 552273-6.





              Much obliged!
              Ash

              Comment


              • #8
                La Cimbali ...Rebuild.

                Ash,
                Well done with the strip down so far,copper is amazing material to use and work with!
                Your failed end,most probably,was next to go anyway.....looks like you have enough pipe length to work with,for resoldering the coffee parts end,I enjoy the soldering part,nice soft flame with 15% silver solder,just great.
                Your finished project will be top standard,with your progress so far.
                Please remember the refurbished machine will have been a "labour of love" .
                I've seen where owners of similar determined projects,try to reclaim both parts /labour cost with a excessive selling price!
                Usually the asking price is way over what is expected!
                Unless you intend keeping your rebuilt machine,keep this in mind when selling.
                Remember,this was kindly meant!
                cheers,
                Mick.
                Last edited by mulquemi; 20 May 2015, 09:27 PM. Reason: SPELLING

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cheers! This machine is a labour of love - the only thing I'm looking to get back from it is some good coffee for me and my friends! As far as the labour I've put in, I prefer to think of it as therapy - a nice way to unwind and solve mechanical problems
                  best,
                  Ash

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Some very helpful info and videos regarding Silver Soldering, Brazing, etc to be found here, that might be helpful...
                    Welding Guide, Resources and Instructions

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks! That site is really helpful - I learnt a lot!

                      As a bit of an update about the economiser valve (in case anybody else has a similar one and needs some info) once it came out and got clean, it now screws in an extra half turn, and sits snug against the boiler - upside down. However, with a gasket (or two?) it should line up in the right spot (I borrowed one off the pressure release valve to check). So - all is going well.

                      In other rebuild news, this model has two vibe pumps rather than a rotary - and one had seized (and the other one I could get moving, but it was also pretty dirty when I took it apart. Lots of elbow grease later - I've cleaned up and rebuilt them - but yet to test - keep you posted!

                      best,
                      Ash.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ash,
                        Good to know all is going well with your machine, I have a LaCimbali as well, commercial unit, mine also came with an odd group handle, if this suits your machine, it's yours for the cost of postage.
                        Click image for larger version

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                        Cheers,
                        Mick.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks very much for the offer, but just judging by the collars, I'm not sure that it would fit in my machine. I've got the stock standard cimbali handles, with the screw in spouts, that take a 58mm basket, and an extra one that came with the machine, which I might look into getting machined out... This looks really interesting, though - especially the edge on the basket, which seems like it would need a special group seal as it doesn't fold over - or perhaps it works with the tapered cimbali seals!

                          It's been great seeing how many cimbalis are out there living on! I popped into the little Cimbali/Faema office in North Melbourne, near the vic markets the other day to ask about parts, but the guy wasn't able to help, and said I needed to talk with coffex as they are the Vic distributor. Most surprisingly, he was a bit annoyed that the machines had been built so well, because he wasn't selling enough new ones! What model do you have? Any tricks you've found for getting great coffee out of it?
                          cheers,
                          Ash

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Another update! My progress has slowed down a bit waiting for parts, but when they arrive, things should start to happen pretty quickly.

                            First, the pipes have been adjusted to fit the new p/stat and that's all looking good - nice and clean! The old one had seized up. (But, on the other hand, I found out that the safety pressure vent works well...)

                            The steam wand and screw have been disassembled and cleaned, with new o-rings and gasket ready to go.

                            After trying to get a new copper sleeve/olive/shoulder/whatever I finally found a lovely guy at ENZED (hope it's ok to name them) who just took it from me, and came back 15 minutes later with the whole thing fixed. Great job too - and although I didn't get the chance to learn to silver solder, he charged me $15 for the parts and time - which is half the cost of getting the silver solder and flux needed for the job. So, a big thanks to Laurence!

                            Finally, I've taken the chance to do a job that is boring, but hopefully saves me hurting myself later - which is to de-burr a number of the stainless panels - some are quite sharp - not a problem when the machine is all assembled, but I've already given myself one thin little cut cleaning the inside of the panels, so hopefully it won't happen again!

                            Ash

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                            • #15
                              Wow!

                              What excellent service from the ENZED guys . Gotta hand it to 'em with their very professional and helpful outlook; not unlike our highly esteemed Site Sponsors when you think about it....

                              Mal.

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