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Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

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  • Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Hello All,

    Long time listener, first time caller.... Love the show! (My attempt at comedy)

    Well, after many years of sufferance with a pod machine and approval from the chief of war and finance, I'm in the midst is searching for my first prosumer espresso machine.

    To give a little bit of a back ground..... I'm an engineer, so I love the inner workings of these machines and also the finesse of trying to achieve that ultimate shot. I don't spend a hell of a lot of time during the week at home, so this machine will do most of its work on Saturday and Sunday mornings and entertaining (coffee loving family and self-confessed snobs).

    Until last week I had my search narrowed down to 2 machines (thanks to all the great info on this forum, thanks guys); the Rocket R58 and the Profitec 700.... I was also looking at the ECM Controvento due to the fact that I love the workmanship of the ECM, but the price tag (around 5.5K) and the large footprint were putting me off.

    And then..... I was reading some info online about the 2015 HOST in Milan a few weeks ago and read that ECM were releasing a new dual boiler with PID in a similar body shape to the EMC Profi. Can someone tell me is this the same machine as the Profitec 700 just with a different label?

    Specs on the ECM Dual 75 PID are;

    · ECM E61 brew group
    · Dual Boiler
    · Stainless steel .75lt boiler for espresso boiler
    · Stainless steel 2lt for steam and hot water boiler
    · Off/on switch for steam boiler
    · PIP temp control for both boilers and shot timer
    · Rotary pump
    · 3lt water tank (can also be plumbed)
    · No burn steam and hot water wands
    · 10amp electrical heating with 1x1400W and 1x1200W

    With some further research, it looks like the EMC will be priced around the 3.5 to 4k AUS.

    Obviously I will need a grinder and other bit and pieces but ultimately I want to get the best quality machine (in my price range), with some adjustability and something that is going to deliver a great espresso (and milk based drinks).

    Appreciate any feedback or advice?



  • #2
    Welcome, Dean!!!

    I suggest considering a good quality grinder to complement the machine. That combo will work with a prosumer espresso.
    I would add that to the deal.

    We have Site Sponsors who possess great knowlege in all things Coffee. Read thro' here

    You can be further tempted by a visit to them....
    Enjoy your journey with Coffee


    • #3
      Hi Dean,

      I'm looking to upgrade to a rotary pump dual boiler machine, so I've been looking into the Profitec and Rocket as well. The internals of the Profitec 700 / ECM Contravento / ECM Dual Boiler 75 are likely to be almost identical, the specs are certainly the same. The ECM 75 looks a bit better in that the gauges are higher up and the steam valves are the lever/joystick type which some people prefer. The taste in the cup from these three machines will likely be very similar, so would suggest you go with whichever appeals to you.

      I discounted the Rocket due to reports of very poor steam power and the finicky external PID, however it certainly looks very nice.

      Good luck with the search!


      • #4
        Thanks for the feedback, I surely will check out the sponsors on the site.

        Good call MrMcsteam on the internals of the EMC and Profitec machines. I think I'll have to wait for the ECM 75, to at least check it out anyway.



        • #5
          in this range the izzo alex duetto also has super similar specs: any specific reason you are not including this?

          Except for the fact it as a PID controller, not a PIP ( boom boom)

          As an engineer and peering inside my Alex i can tell you it is also a work or art


          • #6
            Agreed Brett- they are terrific and we have a special November offer as well...Izzo Alex Duetto III | Talk Coffee

            Must admit, I'm frequently surprised by what I read on the web. In coffee, a large proportion of it is regurgitated urban myth. R58 steam is terrific- albeit gentler than the Izzo and perhaps the others as well. Whilst some might author sweeping statements of criticism, their comments come from rudimentary or zero understanding of the machine/s, process and dynamics. Some (many/most?) quite possibly have no hands on experience with either machine.

            A steam system is akin to a respiratory system: Boiler = lungs, Valve = windpipe and steam tip = mouth. The Rocket has finer holes and therefore gentler, long lasting steam. The Izzo in stock configuration has greater steam pressure but would probably run out of steam earlier than the same machine with a finer tip. Those that complain about the Rocket would just as likely complain that the Izzo has too much steam! Take the tips off the Rocket and Izzo and they'd both run out of steam pretty quickly.

            What we care about is whether there is sufficient steam to texture for 2 x milky drinks and is the machine ready to do it again by the time you are back with the group handle for the next round of coffee? The answer in all cases is yes.

            The Izzo PID strategy is to use lower capacity elements to heat both boilers simultaneously. The Rocket uses higher capacity and alternates with priority to the brew boiler. Profitec/ECM? Dunno... Bottom line is all of them work!
            Last edited by TC; 18 November 2015, 02:53 PM. Reason: more info


            • #7
              yea, i dont get the r58 lack of steam comments either. I have no issues at all with the steam on mine and always get great microfoam.

              i would say, go into one of our sponsors and try a few out to see for yourself.

              R58, Izzo, Profitec..etc....dont think you could go wrong with either of them...


              • #8
                Originally posted by JohnA View Post
                yea, i dont get the r58 lack of steam comments either.
                My impression was that the problem is seen on 110 volt North American machines.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
                  My impression was that the problem is seen on 110 volt North American machines.
                  So not relevant to an Australian forum nor discussion of Australian machines ;-)
                  Last edited by TC; 18 November 2015, 05:18 PM.


                  • #10
                    Thanks Brett for the pick-up on the PIP (auto correct, you know how it is).

                    To be honest I hadn't really paid much attention on the Izzo Alex Duetto iii (for no particular reason), the specs do stack up but the machine looks like it's about to trip over its drip tray (Not a big fan), it may look different in person.


                    • #11
                      Just goes to show that you never really know until you see them in the metal.

                      Some complain about small drip trays in the others. Best bet is away with the keyboard and onto those feet.


                      • #12
                        Here's a great link for comparisons of dual boiler, PID machines


                        • #13
                          Thanks Pauly, this is a great comparison video and have watched it half a dozen times. thanks for the link.


                          • #14
                            You can find some really great reviews on YouTube.


                            • #15
                              The interesting things about the video above is that is pits the Expobar Minore up with the others that cost $1500+ more. The Minore is a category killer !!!