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Expobar Minore to La Marzocco Linea Mini

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  • #16
    Thanks for that Davie, seeing if the Kony is worth it over a Super Jolly...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Davie View Post
      the LMLM where the pour appears after about 2 - 3 seconds.
      (LM)2
      Could even be expressed this way...

      Mal.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dimal View Post
        (LM)2
        Could even be expressed this way...

        Mal.
        Love it Mal.

        Yes ******, it was a pleasure to deal with Rick.

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        • #19
          Super Nice !

          Congrats on the new Mini

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          • #20
            Thanks for your support Davie, was a pleasure to supply that beauty for you! The coachwork really was stunning - best example I have seen to date. It's a shame about the temperature wheel - workable as long as you know that one interval equals approx. 0.5 degrees C, but I can't fathom LM's decision there. Seems like another move to differentiate the machine from the GS/3 to make it seem less 'precise', which is demonstrably untrue from an engineering point of view. Oh well, c'est la vie. At least the new dial looks nice enough.

            Interesting point you make about the pre-infusion as compared to the E61, I suspect by nature the rapid infusion of the stock LMLM might be slightly less forgiving to small variances in technique or grind/dose. Your E61 naked will fit the LMLM if you want to have a closer look, you could also go back to an old faithful basket as opposed to the supplied VST manufactured ones, and see how that goes.


            Cheers, Rick

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            • #21
              You'll also find that the pump of an Expobar Minore with a Vibratory pump is your reason for longer pre infusion (PI) times. The rotary pump is up to 9 bar almost instantly, where the vibratory pumps can take up to 6-7 seconds to come up to full pressure. The E61 jet and brew chamber is also contributing to the PI on a rotary pump model.

              My GS3 AV comes up to 9 bar in about 3 seconds when I haven't got PI selected. It's very frustrating that they didn't program the firmware to only activate the brew solenoid for PI which would give mains pressure [like the paddle version] as PI rather than the pump on/off/on. This is on my 'to do' list, I want to mod it so the pump doesn't engage during PI unfortunately it's more of a firmware issue rather than mechanical modification.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                The Minore has an exceptionally long pre-infusion time. It can be 6-9 second between switching the pump on and getting the first droplets squeezing out. The reason for this is in Expobar's design on the E61 head. They use an insert that extends the length of the water path.
                I thought that a 6-9 sec 'pre-infusion' was pretty normal for a vibratory pump in any e61 machine with this type of pump fitted.

                The 2 Isomacs that I owned generally took about 8 seconds to come up to pressure and start to pour (20+gm dose).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                  The Minore has an exceptionally long pre-infusion time. It can be 6-9 second between switching the pump on and getting the first droplets squeezing out. The reason for this is in Expobar's design on the E61 head. They use an insert that extends the length of the water path.
                  Morning Paul,

                  Pre-infusion on a well set up E61 machine is approx 7 seconds, this means that with a properly dosed basket at around 7 seconds after the pump is activated the coffee will start to flow, six seconds may be a little short and 9 seconds a bit long, 7 or 8 seconds is not exceptionally long, in fact pretty normal.

                  Expobar may well use an insert (perhaps a jet) to achieve the goal, others do similar things.

                  This quote from the Five Senses write up may enlighten.

                  "The E61 group head uses a jet and a special chamber for its method of pre-infusion. In the first stage, the pump is activated and water flows through a jet into a small cavity (#14, Fig 1), which is connected to the space above the coffee basket (#4, Fig 1). During this time, water fills the cavity and flows into the coffee basket. As the pressure in the cavity rises, a spring loaded valve (#8, Fig 1) opens to allow water to also flow into the special pre-infusion chamber (#9, Fig 1). Only when the pre-infusion chamber is full can the brew pressure rise to the ultimate brewing pressure. The time it takes these chambers to fill gives rise to a low pressure, passive pre-infusion stage."

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                  • #24
                    Pretty much every e61 with a vibration pump is 6-9 seconds PI. I've tested many E61 machines with rotary pumps fitted and both they generally have up to 4-6 seconds PI before 9 bar is read at the group, depending on the jet fitted to the mushroom.

                    PS, just got off the phone to Marzocco. I've put in a request for the GS3 AV firmware to be upgraded to have PI without pump and only open the brew solenoid before activating the pump. I asked why other Marzocco models have the option for pump on or off in PI and the GS3 doesn't have it. He said it's a good chance I can see it added to the next firmware update.

                    Imagine this conversation just revolutionised the GS/3 AV.

                    PS, sorry for hijacking the thread.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                      I haven't had the timer out but compared to other E61s the Expobars take approx 4-5 seconds longer. I always wondered why until I found out about the insert.
                      I'm not saying this makes any difference to the coffee but it's a fact. I'll post a YouTube clip that explains it.
                      I am no expert & do not own an expobar...But I think your talking about that chamber cut into the Expobars chamber
                      I would guess that filling that would account for a sec or two also as you said

                      Here is a vid that shows that additional space

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                      • #26
                        Quite a few posts I have read indicated that the Minore had a long pre-infussion time, and I believe the vibe pump does take longer to build pressure.

                        I tried the naked port a filter with the Mini however it doesn't fit, the body of the portafilter will not fit into the group head, I may look into getting one at a later date, however I now love watching the gorgeous stream of espresso running off the spouts . I am using the 18 g VST that I used to use in the Minore (I dose to 19.5g should I be using a 20 g basket)

                        Another question I have is in regards to the dial. It seems if you look at the dial it has large and small markings (I'm guessing the small indicate approx. .5 degree C increments and the large the 1.0 degree mark) It takes 2 clicks to go between the full degree and the half, so does that mean that one click = .25 of a degree?

                        I know the temp doesn't really matter to much and I should just adjust to taste, however it would be nice to know

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