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ECM Elektronika II / Orchestrale Nota / Rocket Evoluzione

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  • ECM Elektronika II / Orchestrale Nota / Rocket Evoluzione

    I'm undecided on three machines. I had a chance to have a look at two of these at MICE on the weekend. Was really impressed to meet the owners of Orchestrale. While I have not had a chance to have a look at the ECM, I love the fact that it has dose control buttons. Is this just gimmicky though?
    I need a quiet machine, hence why I have gone for a rotary pump machine. Need to make up to a dozen coffees in about 15-20 minutes or there abouts.
    I'd be interested in hearing people's comments on any of these.
    Best prices I have so far: ECM $3200 / Orchestrale $3000 / Rocket $3100

  • #2
    I don't really see the electronic timing buttons as a must have, just allows you to set and forget the timing of a shot. It's not really something I'd use outside of a commercial environment as I can often change shot timing for who I'm making the coffee for etc.

    The ECM v rocket are very similar really. Is suggest an ECM technika or mechanika profi with rotary pump. Will come in just under $3k most likely or right on.

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    • #3
      As for noise, the grinder and banging out spent pucks will far outweigh the noise of the pump. I have a vibe pump in my ECM and it's not very noisy in the scheme of things. If you don't plan to plumb it, consider if the extra $300-400 for rotary is what you need.

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      • #4
        Hi Zumaray, I own/use a Nota. This is the first machine for me, I have had it for six months so I am a complete novice. The Nota has performed faultlessly so far,as would most maybe all machines in this price range? the one thing that annoys me is the small tank it has a useable capacity of 2.3 litres and is a bit annoying having to fill the beast all the time, I hope to plumb it in. Steam pressure is excellent, much better than a mates Lelit ($2,000 difference) which is the only other domestic machine I have used. It heats reasonably quickly and with a "heating" flush or two for Group and filter I can have a coffee in 10 - 15 mins [never timed it]. I did get to use a commercial machine at a course I did and performance was very similar from memory of nine months ago. I have been told the Nota is noisy even with the rotary pump and in my situation surrounded by hard reflective surfaces it is to a degree but not as much as the grinders. The Nota is a bit taller than most machines with 114mm between tray and filter spout so tall mugs are not a problem. Overall I am very Happy with the Nota although a PID twin boiler or maybe a lever .......... John

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        • #5
          Hey Zumaray,

          I've got the Rocket Evoluzione, which is a great machine - but I can't say if it is better or worse than the others as I haven't tried them. I love it - it's quiet, and looks beautiful as well. I do like the rotary pump for the option of plumbing it in at some point in time, but the tank is more than sufficient at the moment. As mentioned above all these machines should work similarly, I think that something you really need to consider strongly is the grinder you are going to use. The grinder and your technique will define how quickly you are able to make coffees, and the grinder will most likely be much more noisy than the espresso machine. I would say that for the requirement of making a dozen coffees in 15-20 min (if you're not splitting shots), you'll need something like a Macap M4D or better.

          Cheers, Dave

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          • #6
            Agreed about Daves comments on a good grinder. Iv recently got a Macap m4d and it's great. Very fast, 17g in 9 seconds. Great for a domestic bench top grinder that's not too big and relatively cheap.

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            • #7
              I think it depends how regularly you're going to be doing your 12 or so coffees, as to whether you want the shot timing options. You'll be able to pull shots while focussing on your milk pours etc.
              As well as programming one of those buttons to rinse off your shower screen while you're grinding into your portafilter. I sometimes wish I'd gone the Electronika rather than the Techinka, so that my wife could have confidence to use the machine. However, FWIW, the ECM Technika guts (which would be largely the same as mine) are excellent. Produce fantastic coffee.

              I'd think carefully about going with a plumbed solution - all these will do it. Relying on your tank will be a bit fraught if smashing out a dozen coffees. One day you'll get caught out if, say, your boiler needs a decent top up before you start pulling the shots. You can be diligent - but if you don't want to be, plumb it in.

              The comment about the grinder is very important. How quickly you can spit out the necessary grinds will make a huge difference. Hopefully you've got that sorted. If not, for my money, I recommend the Profitec or ECM grind on demand, as it'll give you a double in 7 seconds. Worth the cost IMHO, but plenty of other good options out there.

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              • #8
                I'm used to using an old Sunbeam 6910 which is extremely loud. I take it the vibration pumps in these style of machines are no where near as loud?? I would like to plumb it but I will be using it at work in my office and have no tap. I'll also take it home when I need to entertain at home.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DaveD View Post
                  Hey Zumaray,

                  I would say that for the requirement of making a dozen coffees in 15-20 min (if you're not splitting shots), you'll need something like a Macap M4D or better.

                  Cheers, Dave
                  I never thought of this issue. I currently have a sunbeam EM0700 grinder. Not sure how it compares to a Macap M4D. The guys from Melbourne were suggesting me to go to a Mazzer or similar.

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                  • #10
                    I have a Giotto Rocket Premium and a M4D at work. I can make 12 flat white quite quickly. An Evo would be great. But to take both home as you say you will - well they are very heavy, but then I am a bit old. To do 12 flat whites I have developed a routine (not a purist here) I do 3 - 4 double extractions so that is 6 - 8 cups. This is very quick using the M4D. Then keeping an eye on the steam pressure (allowing full pressure recovery) I steam the milk for those cups two at a time. Then repeat as necessary. I believe the extraction does not deteriorate as fast as the grinds. I think it only takes about 10 minutes for the 8-12 cups. The comments are the 'sweetest coffee in the area'.
                    (I use a Silvia basket ~14gms the M4D is set for 7 seconds I extract for ~ 20sec/20ml, it get the very best taste out of the beans. The folk come back for seconds - mmmm perhaps that is because it's free!!)

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                    • #11
                      If you're going to go a Mazzer, you'd have to go a Super Jolly or up, otherwise you'll be waiting 20 seconds for your coffee to dispense. I still recommend looking at ECM/Profitec (see my review) or M4D.

                      On the noise front - you'll have to think about constancy of noise too - having a quick quiet grinder will make all the difference. Likewise having a quiet pump that runs for 30 seconds is worlds better than a noise vibration pump for the same length of time. The quicker and quieter you can do ALL things, the less impact the noise will have. If all they hear is a grinder for 7 seconds every minute, that's pretty good.

                      The vibration pumps in the Italian machines vary for noise, but none as noisy as a Sunbeam/Breville. Most are mounted very well, and some a mounted on anti-vibration brackets to make it even quieter. However, vibration pump only does tank, no plumbing in, if you want to future plan. I run my ECM on tank with Rotary.

                      You'll have to think about recovery times too - as an HX machine needs about a minute to rebound between shots. You can work around this fine, but 10-12 split shots will be your limit I reckon, before needing an extended break.

                      I honestly think you should check out your ECM option, or look at some other machines with timed shots - under pressure, it'll just make things that little bit easier. You can watch the pour knowing that if you happen to look away, you'll still be in the ballpark.

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                      • #12
                        ECM Elektronika II / Orchestrale Nota / Rocket Evoluzione

                        I would go for the ECM Electronika. German precision engineering. Quality is second to none. I was lucky enough to pick up this little ECM Controvento at MICE
                        Last edited by kbc; 23 March 2016, 12:08 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pauly404 View Post
                          I would go for the ECM Electronika. German precision engineering. Quality is second to none. I was lucky enough to pick up this little ECM Controvento at MICE
                          That is some serious kit you have there!

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                          • #14
                            Great advice, a few things to think about there. Thanks readeral.

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                            • #15
                              Yep. Upgraditis with approx 6 machines and 6 grinders over 12 years. This SHOULD end it !!

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