Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

La Pavoni Giotto debate (moved to here)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by wattgn View Post
    La Pavoni have cleared all the legal hurdles set and have a clear path legally to sell this machine in Australia and elsewhere.
    I suspect that time may well prove that they are yet to even approach the first hurdle in Australia.

    The discussion is every bit as valid as any other discussion as it's all about ethics. I'm seeing copies of Rocket Espresso's current product, not a 15 year old Giotto Premium.

    Nevertheless, most of it would probably be best split into seperate thread. Perhaps one of the mods might assist.
    Last edited by TC; 16 September 2016, 10:54 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      I'm late to this argument but this is an typical Italian family issue with three families, ECM, La Pavoni and Rocket Express having shared the same bed in the past. There is now the question of who is the legitimate heir. We have Giotto ECM, Giotto La Pavoni and Rocket Express Giotto.

      It is confusing and yes I am very late to the argument. I must admit a few times I have done a double take seeing ECM Giotto then Rocket Express Giotto, now we have La Pavoni Giotto. Maybe 'Giotto' will become like 'Xerox' in time. To 'Giotto' a coffee might become an accepted verb?

      Comment


      • #18
        To the best of my understanding Rocket Espresso purchased the production facility and staff as well as domestic IP. ECM (Germany) purchased all commercial IP. I'm not certain of what the nature of the relationship is between ECM Germany (and their other brand names), Isomac and La Pavoni. Seems to me that the bed was split into two singles, but one company is now insisting on a three quarter.

        Comment


        • #19
          Noisy in here ...

          Originally posted by hellgq View Post

          Pics of our brand new machine. Very excited!
          Opinions may differ but I think the machine looks just as good as any competitors product, or to put it another way ... it looks great to me :-)

          The dual PID displays along the top does make sense to me as I wouldn't need to bend down to read the display, great for people who may not have 6/6 visual acuity.

          My advice is to ignore the fuss and political turmoil, hellgq...you have a great machine because it is the machine YOU wanted and the machine which suited YOUR needs and tastes .... Rocket Espresso has their opinion, others have opinions, you have yours and I have mine .. only your opinion should reflect and matter for your purchase choice. Good on you and enjoy your machine.

          Kudos to Wattgn, I am with you .... what's with this forum when a new member posts and ridicule and attacks are the general form of reply.

          Comment


          • #20
            Chris, are you saying that this particular machine, produced by La Pavoni, is not approved for sale in Europe, USA and Asia?
            And to be fair, bar the dual PID, it looks identical to the Rocket Giotto, which is certainly no dog design. I have to agree on one thing though..... the PIDs look completely ridiculous.

            It seems like there are conflicting stories and ongoing legal issues that makes it hard to get a clear picture on this. From the little I have read, it seems, as it often does in business, ego's have played a big part in all of it.

            Andrew, you mentioned that the Italian ECM never made a machine like this? I thought the original design was by the Italian ECM?

            My interest is purely out of curiosity..... and as a Rocket Giotto owner.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BeanBrat View Post

              Kudos to Wattgn, I am with you .... what's with this forum when a new member posts and ridicule and attacks are the general form of reply.
              Agree with this one - a hand full of 'regulars' notorious for this

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by skidquinn View Post
                Chris, are you saying that this particular machine, produced by La Pavoni, is not approved for sale in Europe, USA and Asia?
                That's my understanding quinn.

                To clarify on your other comment. This is neither an attack nor a case of ridicule.

                Readers have every right to be informed of the dynamics of the issue and make of the ethics and legals of it what they will. I did offer the OP my congratulations and they were genuine. Perhaps you chose not to read that part before you primed your boot.

                Comment


                • #23
                  OP's third machine in 2 weeks. He'll probably just get another one if the posts upset him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    La Pavoni Giotto debate (moved to here)

                    The OP is a customer of mine who has gone from an Expobar Leva to a Minore to a La Pavoni Giotto DB in approx 1 year. Great example of upgraditis
                    Last edited by kbc; 16 September 2016, 08:31 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Man I'd hate to buy this thinking I'd be getting something similar to the ECM workhorse only to realise the internals are isomac.

                      Is this a case of Ferrari looks with a Datsun engine?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi Rick,

                        Yes valves have been lowered to allow room for the PIDS and the body is taller then the single boiler HX versions

                        Cheers

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          No assumptions just jokes 😜

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nickm View Post
                            Man I'd hate to buy this thinking I'd be getting something similar to the ECM workhorse only to realise the internals are isomac.

                            Is this a case of Ferrari looks with a Datsun engine?
                            Hello Nick,

                            Not the case at all.

                            The internals and finish are excellent. We spent six months developing this machine for Australia and made numerous changes and improvements.
                            Work was done in conjunction with a very well respected coffee tech and site sponsor.

                            Some of the improvements we made are not seen on other similar style machines.

                            We have an Isomac on the bench here and you are more then welcome to come and compare the two side by side.

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                              To clarify on your other comment. This is neither an attack nor a case of ridicule.

                              Readers have every right to be informed of the dynamics of the issue and make of the ethics and legals of it what they will. I did offer the OP my congratulations and they were genuine. Perhaps you chose not to read that part before you primed your boot.
                              Nope, that wasn't it. I did read that.
                              It was more the part where you inferred that the OP and anyone else with a differing view shouldn't sleep well at night for it.

                              For the record, I actually agree with you regarding the blatant copy of the design and with you being invested in the issue as a distributor, understand your passion for it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hi Quinn,

                                I think we're actually in agreement then...

                                Just to clarify, ECA is the appointed and exclusive importer/distributor. They appoint resellers as they see fit. We do the same on gear we import.

                                Originally posted by skidquinn View Post
                                It was more the part where you inferred that the OP and anyone else with a differing view shouldn't sleep well at night for it.
                                When I said this?

                                Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                                I accept that others here are entitled to differing views and that's fine. I choose to sleep well at night.
                                What this means is that others are welcome to take whatever stance they choose, or to not give a toss. I really don't care. The sentences stand together.

                                I however have issues with it and I'll choose sleep.

                                Cheers.

                                Chris

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X