Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[>decentespresso]

Turns out we’re going to be at MICE 2019 in Melbourne this February, taking up one end of the Veneziano Roasters booth. Hope to see you there.

-john

[level3ninja]

Unfortunately I just got word back from the manufacturer that my preferred shape is too difficult to make in production.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]20899[/ATTACH]

So I'm going to try a different idea, which is adding 3 cm to the depth of the bracket, leaving enough space for cabling to go through
[ATTACH=CONFIG]20900[/ATTACH]

and we'll compare that with Ben's idea.

You could even have a plastic insert made to fill in the remainder of the additional space around the holes for a cleaner look (essentially the plastic inserts would be about the same size/shape as the change between your first odd shape and the new larger rectangle)

[>decentespresso]

Americano mode

It’s been my intention to eventually make it easy to make an Americano with one button push.

The way I make Americanos at home is that I first put the water in, then the espresso goes on top. Typically about 2x as much water as espresso, at 60ºC.

Here is a mockup I did in Photoshop of how I might change the "Hot water" tab to enable automating this. A new third icon appears in the left settings panel.



In "Americano mode" after the hot water has been dispensed, the tablet software automatically switches to the espresso tab and starts the espresso.

You would tap the coffee icon to switch between the two modes ("water only" vs "Americano" mode).



I understand this approach doesn’t support automation for people who want to put water after the espresso. This is of course still possible manually just not automated.

Would you use this feature? Do you like this implementation or would you like something different?

-john

[day]

I think if you are successful enough then in 15 years people will be saying “I ordered an Americano so you should have put the water in first” and then go on to explain how the molecules don’t mix properly if the water is placed “on top” after brewing the espresso.

It’s been my intention to eventually make it easy to make an Americano with one button push.

The way I make Americanos at home is that I first put the water in, then the espresso goes on top. Typically about 2x as much water as espresso, at 60ºC.

Here is a mockup I did in Photoshop of how I might change the "Hot water" tab to enable automating this. A new third icon appears in the left settings panel.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20904[/ATTACH]

In "Americano mode" after the hot water has been dispensed, the tablet software automatically switches to the espresso tab and starts the espresso.

You would tap the coffee icon to switch between the two modes ("water only" vs "Americano" mode).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20905[/ATTACH]

I understand this approach doesn’t support automation for people who want to put water after the espresso. This is of course still possible manually just not automated.

Would you use this feature? Do you like this implementation or would you like something different?

-john

[gc]

I have always thought of an "Americano" as one of those big, dark coloured mugs of a water drink that passes for coffee in the US! 2:1 water ratio sounds much more drinkable. In fact I do something like that for my wife each morning 34gms expresso shot and 70gms water, but I pour the water into a little jug and then add slowly to the coffee to retain the crema. I've found the water pour rate from the DE destroys the crema if poured onto the espresso shot. But I would have called my shot a "piccolo" (in contrast to a piccolo latte).

[coolie21]

I pour the water into a little jug and then add slowly to the coffee to retain the crema. I've found the water pour rate from the DE destroys the crema if poured onto the espresso shot.

Now why didn’t I think of that... not just applicable to the DE of course!
Btw nice to see another CSer with early morning wife coffee duties! Happy wife happy life...

[level3ninja]

Just add the extra water to the cup first and the pour the shot on top, you'll keep the crema that way (and if you want it to taste better scoop the crema off before drinking).

[gc]

Just add the extra water to the cup first and the pour the shot on top, you'll keep the crema that way (and if you want it to taste better scoop the crema off before drinking).

I used to do that, but found it difficult to judge just the right amount of water first. Of course, now with the DE, I can just dial in a quantity of water [even though the displayed quantity is completely wrong - it's always consistently wrong], I guess I just got into the habit of shot first > water.

[day]

I used to do that, but found it difficult to judge just the right amount of water first. Of course, now with the DE, I can just dial in a quantity of water [even though the displayed quantity is completely wrong - it's always consistently wrong], I guess I just got into the habit of shot first > water.

I would think there is probably a way to calibrate it no? Have you sent a message to the boss man, he might be on set though so may be slow to respond, but he is usually pretty snappy.

[>decentespresso]

evaluating the Rok grinder



After watching a review of the ROK espresso machine by James Hoffmann I got in touch with Patrick, the founder.

I would love to see the Rok work with the Bluetooth pressure transducer from Kávékalmár so that people can move espresso profiles back and forth between a Decent Espresso machine and a Rok (using the Smart Espresso Profiler app). Perhaps you want to use the Decent every day at home, and then take the Rok on holiday with you, and copy your favorite shot by hand?

Or maybe you managed an outstanding shot on the Rok and would like the Decent to try to copy it? I’m happy to report that I’ve introduced Patrick and Gabor to each other, and they’re working on it now.

James indicated he was impressed by the Rok’s hand-grinder, and I’m interested to test it out with the Decent. Its price and quiet operation, if it makes acceptable shots, would make it something I’d very much recommend. I like how it looks next to the Decent too.

I’d also like to call out the Rok’s exceptionally clearly written, wonderfully short, generous warranty statement.

-john

[>decentespresso]

I used to do that, but found it difficult to judge just the right amount of water first. Of course, now with the DE, I can just dial in a quantity of water [even though the displayed quantity is completely wrong - it's always consistently wrong], I guess I just got into the habit of shot first > water.

I've been visually checking the weight in the cup after I asked for 60ml of hot water. I find that a 10% error is typical, but I don't typically get more than 20% error.

Getting very small amounts of water out of the hot water spout at a precise quantity is quite difficult, because we don't know ahead of time how much air is in the water tube. Larger quantities of water should be more accurate, within 10%.

I don't know if you're running the current or older firmware?

The current firmware should be more accurate at dosing hot water, since we've rewritten the flow metering algorithms.

At any rate, if you're looking for precision dosing of hot water my recommendation is to buy our Bluetooth scale, and set the water dose to what gives you the in cup weight you were looking for.

– John

[>decentespresso]

"God shots" extended



God shots are now named and saved permanently to disk. This also means they can be shared between people (for now: via file copying, eventually through a cloud service).

This new feature allows you to store a number of approaches to different espressos ("God shots") that have worked for you in the past.

I am working with the decent community and Scott Rao to collect a library of well-executed shots that used the built-in presets.

My thinking is that if we provide a preset, as well as a trace of a well-executed shot that will greatly help people correctly pull that espresso profile. A common question often arises as to what the grind should be for a given profile. With a God shot to follow, you should adjust the grind until you are able to match the God shot.

In a future tablet release, God shots for the most popular profiles will be included by default, to help you dial in your shots even further.

Another way to use this feature is to save good expressions of an espresso extraction, and then be able to visually compare them.

-john

[gc]

I've been visually checking the weight in the cup after I asked for 60ml of hot water. I find that a 10% error is typical, but I don't typically get more than 20% error.

Getting very small amounts of water out of the hot water spout at a precise quantity is quite difficult, because we don't know ahead of time how much air is in the water tube. Larger quantities of water should be more accurate, within 10%.

I don't know if you're running the current or older firmware?

The current firmware should be more accurate at dosing hot water, since we've rewritten the flow metering algorithms.

At any rate, if you're looking for precision dosing of hot water my recommendation is to buy our Bluetooth scale, and set the water dose to what gives you the in cup weight you were looking for.

– John

I'm running the latest firmware and do use the Skale as you suggest, but still find variance in the water out. eg I set to 70ml but get somewhere between 85-100mls out [by weight] My [very faulty] recall is that it used to be more accurate for pouring water on the FW before June, but it is now much more accurate in other areas that matter more so I'm not really complaining.

I tried making coffee with my old San Marino Compak today as I hadn't used it since receiving my DE1+ in May. Its a very forgiving machine compared to the DE and made OK coffee straight off, but I was standing there wondering "what's it doing now?". No temp control short of a crude flush to lower water temp at the groupe, no pressure control, or flow control, just grind dose and time. Getting just the right qualities I like from my favourite roasts is a challenge on the DE but very rewarding in the end, whereas it never occured to me to "tweak" the old HX - or if that was even possible. The one thing I did miss though was just a gentle tap on a dry puck into the knock box. So much better than the sloppy pucks on the DE. Sigh........

[>decentespresso]

I'm running the latest firmware and do use the Skale as you suggest, but still find variance in the water out. eg I set to 70ml but get somewhere between 85-100mls out [by weight] My [very faulty] recall is that it used to be more accurate for pouring water on the FW before June, but it is now much more accurate in other areas that matter more so I'm not really complaining.

If I could bother you to whip your camera phone out a few times when you use the hot water function, and take a photograph of the final weight as well as the tablet settings, that would really help. Then please post those photos to the owner's diaspora group. I haven't seen more than 10% error myself or from others on the forum, so what your reporting is beyond what I'm okay with and I'd like to resolve it.

PS: sorry about the wet pucks, it's the price to pay it seems for higher extraction levels. People have reported being able to make dry pucks on the decent espresso machine with different profiles that extract less.

– John

[gc]

If I could bother you to whip your camera phone out a few times when you use the hot water function, and take a photograph of the final weight as well as the tablet settings, that would really help. Then please post those photos to the owner's diaspora group. I haven't seen more than 10% error myself or from others on the forum, so what your reporting is beyond what I'm okay with and I'd like to resolve it.
– John

Many thanks John. Will do. Hope screenshots are OK and will text in final weight on Skale.