Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[TampIt]

Tampit I have always used diamond cutting wheels on an angle grinder and a masonry bit on slow rotation (with no impact). The most important tool of all was the large overlap on whatever I was installing, covered up any indescretions, which did happen. That is the part I was bringing this up for, John can control that and a 30mm or 40mm overlap is better than 10mm if doing an unusual shape in something like granite, etc

Your laser suggestion is excellent for a new install.

G'day 338

Laser - that is what the place I bought it from use nowadays - they just draw a shape on the screen and "print / cut it out" of the granite. Slow but really, really precise.

Overlap - Yep, I agree. If it is Conan or his dumber cousin(s) driving it the more overlap the better. However if you do the old "measure twice, cut once" even 10mm is plenty of overlap - that sewing machine (complete with a lump at the rear for cables and a taper at the front for some unfathomable reason - hence the odd shape) had a rubber gasket which would not have been more than 1/4" wide - which is why I resorted to a three stage job with a Dremel for the final finish. I reckon 40mm would have been well within the DeWalt's tolerance. The annoying thing is that it made that stunning desk / bench worthless for any other use - even a different sewing machine if it were smaller - fortunately it is not my prob anymore.

Perhaps John could consider a larger overlap as an option... although tape is cheap and Conan's mob deserve no better.

FWIW, I may be biased at the moment - "my Acer laptop doesn't work, the battery is flat and it won't charge" says a friend of my mums - coming around complete with an completely incorrect voltage IBM charger... sheesh - at least get the brands matched. Idiot. I am half expecting his wife / mistress / whatever next week with the same issue from the other mismatched laptop / charger.

A quick note - all masonry bits and drills are far from equal. I mainly use Sutton and Josco and they both prefer higher impact rates (say 2,000+ beats per minute) and higher speeds (I usually go flat out which is near to 1700 revs from memory) plus cutting fluid. My other bits (Frost, Irwin, B and D etc) are much slower and "impact off" is better. Strangely my old AEG and Bosch mains powered drills (i.e. big construction beasties) only do about 150 beats per minute so they are pretty useless for "new drill bit" granite cutting - they take a lot longer and leave a much bigger mess (optional chunks of granite included for free). If you do a lot of work with granite I would recommend a bit of a tinker with some of the newer "high speed / high no of smaller beats" battery drills and bits. Ditto diamond cutters - about 3 ice ages ago I "somewhat helped" a stonemason build a dry wall using local rock (granite with a fair bit of quartz). We used a huge, slowly rotating diamond saw and oceans of (recycling) fluid. The newer cutters would have ripped through the same stuff in a fraction of the time with less shattering (probably none).

Times change technologies I guess. Says he now slavering over the arrival of his new toy - which I just found out has shipped in between these posts today(!!!). Hopefully it beats hell out of my old "manual lever benchmark for great coffee".

Enjoy your cuppa - this is a great light roasted Colombian SO and it is going down like a good coffee liqueur (think 1970's Tia Maria, before they stuffed it up?) at the moment. Hopefully the Decent Pro will top it "in the cup" later this fortnight.


TampIt

[>decentespresso]

A new Decent Espresso model

Juuuuust about finished. I intend to announce it next month.

This model is intended for coffee carts, cafes, designer kitchens: anywhere you would want cables and tubing to be hidden from sight.

Internally, this model is the same as the DE1PRO, except that:
- it has our Pro steam wand,
- totally different chassis (legs/cover/back/tablet stand)
- a countersunk bracket (optional).

Yes, your DE1+ and DE1PRO models can be retrofitted, if you buy all the changed parts.

This "DE1XL" model will cost about 20% more than the DE1PRO.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Decent at MICE coffee show




You’ll be able to find Decent at 3 locations:

—
LEARN ABOUT DECENT TECHNOLOGY

Our own stand (101) with a DE1XL and a DE1PRO.

Matt Perger has roasted the same beans two different ways. He and I will be crafting our espresso extractions to make each roast taste its best.
—

TASTE DECENT ESPRESSO AND DECENT POUR OVERS

At Veneziano Coffee Roasters stand #80 Scott Rao will be using our latest prototype pour over portafilter baskets, and explaining the theory and practice of Decent Pour Overs, and serving them for tasting.

There will be two DE1PRO machines, as we’ll also be pulling espresso shots.

—

TASTE ZEST’S COFFEE

Zest Specialty Coffee Roasters at stand 78 will have 3 DE1PRO machines, making espresso shots with their beans. Decent engineer Ben Champion will be on hand to assist.

—

UPCOMING SHOW SPECIAL

We will be selling the Decent Espresso machines we bring to MICE at a 38% discount. You will need to pick the machine up at MICE in the last hour on saturday.

Look for an announcement next week…

-john

[>decentespresso]

all-white DE1XL



I was wondering if there was much interest out there in an all-white DE1XL ?

-john

[>decentespresso]

As the shipping of my 220V Pro is imminent, how would the longer cover fit with the catering / plumbing kit "hooked on the back"? Hopefully all pipes would still remain out of sight?

maybe a picture will help, it’s actually a still from a video I uploaded recently

Anyway, if it is not too late, feel free to treat me as a guinea pig and send the longer cover with the machine "but only if that works for you".

Unfortunately, we've only made one bracket and one cover set, so I have none to send out. I made one each, of three different variations to see them in action. Making them as one offs like this is really expensive, which is why I only make one.

We recently changed from using a prototyping service to instead paying more to have our actual mass manufacturer make the one-offs. The reason is, the prototyping service uses different manufacturing techniques (mostly 3D CNC) and the result is almost always perfect, perfect, perfect. We've been stung before, as we transition from a prototype to mass manufacture, with things then looking different because a much less expensive manufacturing process is used.

At any rate, I decided to go with the "DE1XL" approach, where the bracket is rectangular (not odd shaped), the chassis is extended and a magnetically held back panel hides everything. I figured that if you're going to cut into your countertop, you might as well do everything right and hide the tubing and wires correctly.

I'm hoping to have all these parts in hand toward the end of March. If you end up wanting to go down this route, since you already purchased I will sell the refit kit at a discount, just for the difference in price between the models, not the more expensive approach of of buying the parts à la carte.

I was actually going to build a "clip on" extra cover to hide all the working parts at the rear anyway when using the catering kit. If you decide to do this, naturally I would send you feedback as to how it worked. FYI, my Pro will be at two different locations for a while - one plumbed in (large filtered rainwater tank - no pressure, just gravity), one free standing.

Sounds like you and I are thinking along the same lines.

I also realise that the longer cover may not fit in the current travelling case - so if this is too much of a hassle please just send me the standard / slightly modded (stainless front panel) Pro I ordered and I will be 100% happy with that anyway. At the end of the day, I am not really a "caring about cosmetics" guy*...

That's correct, the longer case will not fit in the current suitcase. We have to send you this stuff in a separate box and you will spend a half-hour with a screwdriver converting it over. It's not at all difficult, I think the entire process is ~15 screws (cover, legs, tablet, standoffs).

I am clearly not a 'carpenter's bootlace' (or whatever ********* stands for). I would find that a difficult shape to cut out of granite with either a bandsaw or a jigsaw, but happy to learn how from those more knowledgeable. Of course I wouldn't be so assumptive to assume that all kitchens worldwide have the some countertop as me, but degree of difficulty in various materials would be worth taking into account.

As mentioned above, I decided to go with the rectangular, but longer countersunk shape, so that all the tubes and wires can be hidden. The combination of "hard to cut" and "budget solution that doesn't go all the way" was not a winning idea.

Perhaps John could consider a larger overlap as an option... although tape is cheap and Conan's mob deserve no better.

I much prefer the aesthetics of a narrow overlap. We tried renders of a thicker one and it was kind of ugly.

This bracket is currently made of 2mm thick stainless steel, and is virtually indestructible. It's a bit over-speced.

Because we went with a rectangular shape, I think cutting the whole will not be very difficult now. Fabrice, who doesn't have any experience doing this, was able to competently do it the first time, though actually he did destroy one pallet practicing.

-john

[TampIt]

G'day John

I suspected your new XL panel would not fit your specially designed case. If I had designed your case it wouldn't have much extra clearance anyway (to keep everything a lot neater and save on shipping in some instances).

As it happens my Pro went out the door as I posted my last two "decent posts". Thanks in advance (now the countdown really starts for me).

I couldn't agree more about the overlap - a few mm is plenty. Even your other, more complex, shape is easy enough to cut for anyone moderately skilled.

Glad the bracket is good and solid (not over-spec in my view - the thought of it breaking is pretty horrific).

Enjoy MICE.

TampIt

[>decentespresso]

We’re headed to Melbourne!



Find us at the MICE trade show, at:
- our own stand #101
(with appearances by Matt Perger)

- Veneziano stand #80
(with Scott Rao making pour-overs
and Luca making espresso)

- Zest stand #78 making espresso
(and Decent Engineer Ben assisting)

Our HK headquarters we will be closed this week for Chinese New Year.

-john

[luca]

Hi guys,

John has already said what's going on, but just a note from me to say that, yes, I'm looking forward to being on the Veneziano stand and getting a chance to play around with the decent machines and make coffees for people. If you're at the show, please do make yourself known to us!

Cheers,
Luca

[simonsk8r]

Hi guys,

John has already said what's going on, but just a note from me to say that, yes, I'm looking forward to being on the Veneziano stand and getting a chance to play around with the decent machines and make coffees for people. If you're at the show, please do make yourself known to us!

Cheers,
Luca

Awesome! I'll be at MICE I'll hopefully pop in and say hey! Will be a great expo, new location this year too so should be interesting

[nate74]

Hello All,

New to the CS forums, so forgive me if the post is maybe not in the right place.

I was looking for some opinions on the DE1+PRO compared to the Londinium R. Hopefully from some owners of both machines.

For a little background, I currently have this setup
Londinium I (Pre R model)
Monolith Flat grinder
Compak W10 WBC
USRC sample roaster, 99% of the coffee I consume is home roasted. Beans usually coming from Sweet Marias or Royal Coffee Crown Jewels.

I was considering adding the Londinium R to my coffee bar, but the Decent DE1+PRO really has my attention now. I roast mostly light roasts, maybe a few toward the medium side. Some of my favorites are natural Ethiopians for straight espresso and Costa Rica for milk drinks.

I am really liking the ability of the DE1 to customize shot parameters to get the most out of each different bean/roast. I would be most appreciative for any feedback on the LR vs DE1PRO.

-Nate

[StaticBlue]

Hi Nate, there is a interesting review on the Londinium R here: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthrea...-Why-I-sold-it

Cheers

[>decentespresso]

I now have one DE1PRO available for sale at 38% off, to take away with you after 3pm today, at the MICE trade show.

Come by our booth (#101) today (it's "public day" here today) to check it out.

We had previously sold out all 3 "show specials" in the first 6 minutes of the show, but one person's wife changed her mind when it came to settle the bill that evening.

and here's a small clip from the show:

[>decentespresso]

First full 300º view of the upcoming DE1XL model.

One note: that cable coming off the tablet is going to the huuuge screen we used for the trade show. You wouldn't normally have that cable there.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Would you have any interest in a countersunk pitcher rinser?

I've sourced one I quite like, and with a "flojet" like device, use it to rinse my portafilter after each shot. It's hugely cut down my time to make each espresso, especially since our high-extraction Decent shots tend to create sloppy pucks. The pitcher rinser solves that.

At the MICE trade show, I used a sous vide heater to warm the pitcher rinser water to 60ºC, so that this technique didn't much cool down my portafilter.

Here's a view of the setup from MICE, alongside the new DE1XL model.

And regarding the DE1XL:
- it will be priced at USD$3999 (and other currencies)
- however, an upgrade kit will be available to all current DE1+/DE1PRO users, at the discounted price of $3999 minus "whatever you already paid" (ie, the price difference).
- You'll need 15 minutes, a Torx T10 and Phillips screwdriver, to do the conversion.
- Countersinking is optional.
- I'll start taking orders in a few weeks for the DE1XL. Not sure if it'll only be in black, or also possibly in white.

New leg design on DE1XL:




FYI: XL means "extra long"

Here is what it looks like NOT countersunk.



You can hide the cables/tubing without countersinking, if you have a small hole in countertop.

-john

[level3ninja]

I'm curious how countersinking affects the skale under the drip tray trick, and how the 3D printed adaptor works with the XL drip tray. Am I right in thinking you can no longer see he skale but it still talks with the tablet? Would the adaptor need to be modified or are the drip trays the same?